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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I used her Christmas dinner as a venue without asking her when I know she likes to be the center of attention
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Generally yes, YTA to propose at someone else's event. That's rude unless you have permission. This was also a situation where you should be sure Jake was okay with a public proposal in front of his family.
Lol and she’s calling the mom an attention seeker and one upper, the irony is hilarious
This is kind of weird to me because this isn't like a wedding or even somebody else's birthday, it's not a day that belongs to somebody, it's Christmas, famously the biggest holiday of the year for a lot of people. I don't think the same etiquette applies.
Like yeah, understandable this went south, but most of the families I know would be delighted to be part of something like this.
I know we see a lot of "I proposed at somebody else's major life event" posts here and it's usually not cool, but I honestly think this is different.
I also think OP should have checked in first. But this isn't equivalent to proposing at somebody else's birthday. Unless that person is Jesus.
The “day” doesn’t belong to someone, the dinner (that OP specifically selected because a lot of someone else’s work gets put into it) does, though. She could have proposed anywhere else
Man you are all over this thread, this seems to have struck a nerve.
I saw somewhere else that OP wanted to take advantage of MILs decorations and whatnot, and yeah, that's tacky. But for me, Christmas is a family holiday. And yes, you'd want to do it at a family event to maximize that. That's what Christmas is about. Nobody in my family, or anyone else I know, stands on ceremony like this. For me, this would be adding celebration to celebration. To try and hold a holiday like Christmas hostage because you're hosting seems silly to me. But that's me.
So I maintain that yeah, OP very much should have checked in. But if your attitude towards Christmas dinner is "I must be the center of attention as the host because this is My Day", the way people are about birthdays and weddings, that's. A little Scrooge-ey.
You’re the one responding to my comment my dude lmao
OP put no work into the decorations, made no effort to let them know, nothing. If you think Christmas is a FAMILY holiday, then the FAMILY should have agreed to have been a part of it (and would have been perfectly within their rights to respectfully decline)
>hold a holiday like Christmas hostage
Jesus lol you can’t be serious - they’re at a dinner hosted by his mom. She could have proposed anywhere else at any other time. Nobody’s holding an entire holiday “hostage”
You’re being willfully ignorant if you can’t see the issue
I agree, Christmas itself yes is a holiday for everyone. But this has to do with the event itself. The Dinner was put together by the host, she needed to check with his parents first. OP is the AH for failing to do that. Is rude to propose at someone else’s event without their permission, no matter what day it is. Yes the mom may be an attention seeker but her knowing this even the more reason to check with her future MIL. I mean is that how you’re going to start a relationship with your future MIL? I’m not saying kiss her behind. But Read the room first before you make decisions.
At the end of the day it’s not about whether or not Christmas dinner is appropriate for a proposal. It may not be a big deal to everyone but it could be a big deal to someone, like in this case. You never know how another person is going to react. That’s why you never propose at someone else’s event without checking with them first, never assume! Whether is a wedding, birthday or christmas dinner. This way you avoid future dramas like this one. Lol
Honestly I don't get the need that people have to propose in front of an audience. It's just between the two of you, just like your marriage will be. Why not go out for a walk to look at Christmas lights and propose then?
> But if your attitude towards Christmas dinner is "I must be the center of attention as the host because this is My Day", the way people are about birthdays and weddings, that's. A little Scrooge-ey.
I disagree. Being the host for Christmas involves a lot of planning and effort - from the invites, to the decorations and certainly the food. Seriously, have you ever tried being the main cook for a large group? It's exhausting and it's not cheap either.
The least you can do for someone putting in so much effort is to check with them if you can use the event that they're hosting to propose to someone.
The fact that she didn't ask/inform his parents in any way before doing so is what is super faux pas and completely lacking in social grace.
100% this. It’s clear they had exchanged gifts in the morning, if OP had used this opportunity to propose (whether with the ring as one of the gifts or just during this time) or they had done so later in the day this would have been fine. Doing it in the middle of dinner was done just to be the centre of attention and make the dinner table conversation about them which is an AH move.
It's not equivalent to proposing at a wedding or a similarly inappropriate event, but it's still in poor taste to hijack any event like this, especially when you know it's going to rub the hosts the wrong way.
I don't understand why OP couldn't have waited until *after dinner*, she had to do it *during dinner*.
Because she’s an asshole.
I need to stop forgetting that people are AHs
Wait- but mom's the attention seeker! Omg OP how tacky can you get
Agreed. Also, if OP knew the parents were probably going to be upset, why choose that moment and taint the proposal with their anger? This could possibly have been a vindictive move against the parents.
Public proposals are tacky. They put the other person on the spot. It doesn’t matter if it’s Christmas dinner or a sporting event. She could have asked Jake to take an after dinner walk and proposed.
Mostly agree. It also sort of seems like she proposed in front of his family partially because she knew they would have problems with the non traditional-ness of a woman proposing, and wanted to make a point right there in front of them.
I think OP could have cleared it with the host first, but I agree with the sentiment of what you’re saying. If OP knew that the parents might have had an issue with a woman proposing, she probably should have done it somewhere else.
Eh, the whole "hijacking the event" argument is one thing, but if the big problem is with a woman proposing, the parents merit no respect whatsoever.
Agreed, but OP was setting herself up for conflict here knowingly acting against the hosts’ conservative beliefs at their event. This makes her TA, but it doesn’t mean she was wrong.
She didn’t check in bc she already knew what mil would say-“no” and i dunno if it would be out of spite or bad timing since she doesn’t like me.
I find it curious though that MIL hushed FIL so you could finish with a quiet room and allow jake to answer. She also could’ve interrupted the proposal and started a hissy fit in hysterics about “how dare you! This is not ok or you need to leave or this is my event and your an attention seeker, you’re jealous of my party attention!” But she didn’t.
Her ranting after you left and not shrieking like a banshee during the proposal was more than 98% of the MILs on here would do
> his mom always goes way over the top with decorations, so it was like a winter wonder land and it just seemed like the perfect place.
"Look at all this work someone else has done, i think i'm going to use it for MY moment". If you know the audience personally, you should check and make sure they are okay with it. If you want to use someone else's work for your engagement atmosphere, go somewhere public
My stepdad proposed to my mom on Christmas Eve at his family Christmas and no one got mad. He was a little scared so he jokingly asked his brother's wife first and then turned to my mom. They will celebrate 26 years in January.
The she should have offered to host it if she wanted to hijack it. It’s incredibly tacky to do it at someone else’s house at a dinner they are hosting.
She didn't do it before or after dinner. She did it DURING dinner, which was planned and made by her future MIL. Come on, that's really awkward. Even as a guest I would be annoyed. Let me enjoy the food and do your show later!
I agree. I don't understand why everyone wouldn't be happy to watch the event. I wouldn't say she the AH, maybe just a little naive to not check with the hosts first since they already had issues. Just puts her in the position to have a bad start with the future in-laws.
Otherwise, congratulations OP!
> it's not a day that belongs to somebody, it's Christmas
Very true. But if you attend a dinner, the dinner belongs to the people hosting it. It’s rude to not at least give them a heads up.
Guess /u/Puzzleheaded_Job_630's fiancé is one of those guys who dates women similar to his mother.
I agree. OP knows the MIL is seeking to be the center of attention and that she put a lot of work into this celebration. So OP chooses to one-up her. Ridiculous. Definitely YTA.
Christmas isn't really someone else's 'event', though. It's being celebrated worldwide, it wasn't focused on MIL. I think OP isn't in the wrong, here, they just have grumpy in-laws.
Someone did the work to make their Christmas celebration look like a winter wonderland, and it wasn't Santa or other folks worldwide.
If my child was proposed to at my Christmas dinner I would be elated, it’s the perfect place for it! Surrounded by people you love? It just seems so insane to me for the mom to be so upset.
It's not the perfect place for it, unless both parties are already aware of it. It's actually the perfect place to put someone on the spot and make them uncomfortable.
I guess that would depend on how the family feels about the relationship. For example, I know my aunt is not a fan of her daughter’s boyfriend and, though she does her best to be supportive, she will be disappointed if/when he proposes and this would ruin her Christmas. It would also be hard on one of her siblings who, though he loves his sister and would ultimately be happy for her, has been unlucky in love, and would be hurt by having an engagement shoved in his face on Christmas. I think proposing at a family gathering is in poor taste.
I just think that's going way over the top into being self centered and self absorbed. It's Christmas, it's for love and family and sharing. If anything you'd think that she'd be thrilled that OP thought her place was the perfect place to propose. My cousin goes all out with her decorating and she'd love it if one of her kids proposed at her place, she wouldn't get in a snit over it.
If it’s for family and sharing then OP should have shared with her family that she was going to do it at their dinner that they put a lot of work into
> I just think that's going way over the top into being self centered and self absorbed.
Ehh, a bit. But it's pretty self-centered and self-absorbed of Op to be like "Oh hey, MIL made this beautiful set of decorations and meal, let me take advantage of that for my proposal." Like OP did NONE of the effort to make this holiday special and just jumped on the other family's coat tails.
Yeah the idea of parents not being overwhelmed with happiness for their son’s engagement on any day other than another wedding or birth/birth announcement is crazy to me
Yeah, tbh if a parent's first thought is 'omg my dinner' then there's something...off, there.
Or maybe they don't really like their future DIL--and it's not hard to see why from how she handled the proposal.
How did she mishandle it other than going outside of gender norms?
Seriously? Its rude and completely tacky to take over someone's event without asking. The mom worked hard to make their event nice , op admitted that the mom goes all out and wanted to use it to her advantage and she couldn't even be bothered to ask and plan it out with them, guarantee it's because she already knew they wouldn't approve. They probably already didn't like her and I'm sure that factors into the annoyance.
She made it weird. I'm curious about the issues in the past.
100% this. It’s such a selfish reaction.
Tell that to the person who probably spent a week cleaning, decorating, building a menu, shopping for the menu, preparing and cooking the food. Often this falls on the woman of the house. So the even is not about her but it is her event in the sense that she did a ton of work
Proposing at someone else’s house during a dinner they have made for you is insanely tacky.
I feel like if the genders were reversed no one would have an issue with it. NTA.
With the fact that it was at someone else's dinner? Yeah, no, I don't think anyone would say it was rude, either. But because context matters in these "what if the reverse" situations, I think its important to acknowledge that it IS going to be different if a woman proposes, in this specific case. Because OP acknowledged that she thought the dad might have an issue with it, but she did it anyway. Idk if people think pissing their partners parents off is some rebellious act of justice against sexism or something, but its rude, literally asking to start trouble, and will not educate anyone. "Hey guys I did something I knew might bother someone and they were bothered by it. Aita?" Like...didn't you know that you were going to be and you did it anyway? Then stick to your convictions. Why do you need outside validation?
No, it would still put the person being asked in an awkward situation.
I actually disagree. I think she’s getting more backlash bc of the gender thing (it can be tricky proposing as a woman in front of a crowd, especially an old fashioned crowd, and that should be taken into consideration) but if it was a guy I’d still say that public proposals are horrible unless everyone around you knows (except the fiancé of course) and the fiancé has said they enjoy the concept (usually this would be apparent if you talked before hand). not telling the family that you’re proposing on a FAMILY holiday and the DINNER TABLE? Not good no matter the gender (in fact if the guy is proposing it’s usually expected for him to give the parents a heads up, so it would be even worse in my eyes)
Exactly. How many men planned to pop the question? Isn't that like one of the four Hallmark plots? I know of at least 1 engagement this weekend.
Every single time I’ve seen someone get engaged at a family Christmas on social media my first thought is instantly “Well, that sure is rude to make the whole day about them.” A lot of people keep saying it isn’t rude because Christmas doesn’t belong to anyone like a birthday or a wedding. It belongs to everyone though, and it is rude to try to make it belong to someone, namely yourself.
I'd say if it was gift giving time it'd be fine. But at family dinner it's kind of rude.
I've never really understood the big public proposal thing. It always felt to me like it was a private moment. I can see wanting him to associate Christmas with being proposed to, that's actually very sweet. But it could have been done when they got home from mom's place, or later over to one side, or bright and early in the morning before Mom celebration even started. OP had a lot of options. She kind of does owe future MIL an apology for upstaging. Particularly, when she's not doing the traditional proposal.
But, it's also an understandable mistake. IDK. I'm not super sure that these two are gonna make it.
YTA. Not for proposing to him during Christmas, but by doing it *during Christmas dinner when you were not the host*, you did make it all about you.
The rule for proposals is that you do not do it during someone else's event without getting prior permission. If you are not comfortable asking them permission beforehand, that is an excellent sign that you are not close enough to judge whether or not it is appropriate. (And I just know someone is going to say that Christmas is not his mother's event. That's correct. But Christmas dinner *at her house* is her event.)
You made an excellent point - if you aren't comfortable asking the host's blessing, then you shouldnt have done it.
Also, public proposals can be an AH move unless you 100% know that your SO is comfortable with that kind of thing. Someone putting me on the spot on front of my entire family would make me livid. OP clearly didnt care how the host felt about her proposal, and I wonder if her fiance was comfortable or not.
I made it abundantly clear to my fiance that I did not want a public proposal and I did not want it around the holidays. I would have been mortified if he proposed to me on Christmas day at my parent's house during dinner without talking to them about it first.
People are different. My fiance proposed in the corner of a jazz bar in one of our favorite cities after a lovely dinner. He didn't get down on one knee. No one around us knew what was happening, not even the waiter. It was perfect. It was technically in public but not actually public.
His good friend proposed a few months later in a restaurant. Her entire family was there as a surprise, he got down on one knee, and basically paused the entire restaurant. It was perfect for her.
Same general situation, two totally different approaches.
For sure. If someone wants the public proposal, fine. But if you don't know for sure, do it privately.
Thank you for this explanation, I was leaning n-t-a but this was a perspective that I didn’t consider and I think you’re right.
Seriously, I don't know where OP lives but basically everywhere in Christian majority countries have public Christmas stuff going on, even in small rural places. She didn't need to hijack someone else's event for a Christmas themed proposal. Shit, even if she just took him to see Santa and explained the situation to them I'm sure they'd be fine with it. I live in a large city so there's a lot more stuff than some places but I can think of 10 places off the top of my head and I don't particularly like Christmas. Even having it as a gift wrapped under the tree would be better.
The unspoken rule is that you don't hijack anyone else's thing to do a proposal without running it by them first.
Came here to say this, but you said it did me!
Yep. Anyone else hoping someone announces a pregnancy at her engagement dinner and proposes at her wedding, or am I the only petty one? 😅
But if Jake's happy, woo hoo! I'm sure there will absolutely no consequences for further souring an already mediocre relationship with your future in laws.
You *did* hijack her dinner, and her family’s tradition, and try to make it all about you and Jake. The classy and thoughtful thing to do would have been to talk to his family first and gain their support to propose during their family celebration.
Also - Info: Did you and Jake talk about the timing and circumstances of getting engaged? Was there any expectation/agreement about what each of you wanted? Or did you just decide that whatever you wanted to do would suffice?
The jewelry thing is irrelevant really. The fact that you mentioned it indicates that you really don't like your fiance's mother. Also in an attempt to try to persuade us into thinking you are not the AH.
However, you are YTA.
A lot of work goes into planning Christmas. You didn't ask permission to propose before. Yet again, says another negative about you being inconsiderate and lazy in making the proposal special. You used the mother essentially in making the special ambiance.
Also, despite you hijacking her work, she was at least considerate to you by not making an issue at the moment and preventing her husband from making an issue.
If you wanted to propose so badly at Christmas, how about you do the work yourself in decorating, planning, and making the meal instead of taking advantage of somebody else's work.
It feels to me that she wanted to make a spectacle out of the woman proposing to the man and make sure the family (future MIL, specifically) saw it, rather than it just being a moment between them.
Yep. Really feels like a political statement with this framing instead of a special moment between the couple.
Also, and I say this being 100% pro women doing the proposing, she knew the dad would be uncomfortable with the woman proposing and did it in front of him anyway.
The jewelry thing is completely hilarious to even halfway logically think about. She didn't specify, but after that sentence I just figured OP was 14F.
Why exactly was the mom trying to make her jealous? Making OP want to marry the dad so she could get jewelry? Or trying to make OP feel bad about dating the mom's OWN SON who doesn't get her fancy jewelry? Pointless.
If mom decorated the place like, verbatim, a winter wonderland, it's an event. Easily YTA.
It’s common courtesy not to make announcement or proposals at another person’s events without the express permission of the host(s)
YTA. I don’t think you propose at other people’s events without permission. Be it someone else’s dinner, engagement party, wedding or whatever. You made the evening about you - and you should have sought permission or done it quietly when it was just the two of you.
YTA - only read the title that was enough. Like Ghostbusters, never cross the events/streams. What if it ends in tears? Xmas is forever tainted.
Upvote for Ghostbusters reference.
Hate to say it, OP, but YTA. The fact his mom goes "way over the top", according I you, is a clear indicator of how important it is to her. You hijacked her event - in the middle of a dinner I'm assuming she prepared - in order to make your proposal.
There are so many ways you could have avoided being the AH - check with his mom if she was okay with you proposing during dinner, put up lots of Christmas stuff in your own place as a surprise and propose when he comes home, take Jake on a walk looking for the best Christmas lights or to see a big Christmas display and propose their. Even proposing post dinner, somewhere quiet in the house or in the garden, would still have been better.
Instead, you took advantage of someone else's labour to make the backdrop for your romantic proposal without even once considering her feelings. You owe her an apology, seriously.
Edited to add: if her husband is "old fashioned", she probably does a huge amount of physical and emotional labour that she is never thanked or acknowledged for. If that's the case, big family events or celebrations are often the only time women like that get to experience any gratitude or positive attention for their efforts, and you very literally stole that from her. Sad, but true.
It takes *a lot* of planning, time, and labor to put together a magical Christmas. And op just kinda poo’d all over it and made it about her. It’s really disheartening when something like that happens.
YTA. You shouldn't have proposed at their family Christmas without checking that they were okay with it first.
You never do stuff like this at someone’s else’s events. If someone else is hosting an even you don’t hijack their event. It doesn’t matter what it it. Wedding, bridal showers, birthday parties, and yes even family dinners. ESP a family dinner that the host spent hours preparing and planning for. Also you interrupted people’s dinner for this. So in the middle of dinner you decided to make this jog grand gesture. Which also means people obviously have to stop what they are doing.
The fact that you don’t understand YTA makes you a bridezilla in the making
_edited to YTA_
If you're gonna propose in the middle of a party someone else is hosting, you should probably run that by them
This. I was gonna say, did OP ask for permission or even run it by them? If it’s out of the blue proposal, that was incredibly inconsiderate. OP, YTA
Given the responses from the parents its obvious OP didn't ask.
OP has now confirmed in a comment that it was out of the blue, both for the family and for the fiancé
Everyone agrees that OP is an AH but you are one of the only people voting ESH instead of YTA. You want to explain why you think someone else sucks?
My guess is the commenter thought dad being weird about a woman proposing makes him an asshole.
Honestly, based on the post I don't think it's even possible to know if the dad was confused by a women proposing or the audacity of someone proposing in the middle of dinner at an event his wife was hosting. I'd say the latter is completely reasonable to be confused/angered with.
Honestly I wasn't fully awake at the time and I don't even know why I gave that verdict.
Lol, fair enough.
Your proposal decision was not over the top rude, but it might have been a bit tone-deaf re paying attention to context and reading the room. Some people take their family holiday arrangments very seriously and it's effectively a mini-set production. You had obviously planned to do this prior to the occasion. Your assumption that this was just a casual event you could drop the proposal into was not out of bounds, as people often use family or friend gatherings to do this, but given how invested his mother is in the planning and dinner arrangments it might have been polite and prudent to give her a heads up.
Also, doing it **during** dinner was probably not the best plan. This was her time to shine and the proposal took all the oxygen out of the room for people to admire her efforts re dinner and holiday arrangements.
Re the "jewelry/attention seeker" comment, you also seem to have some passive-aggressive competition with her going on under the surface, which raises an eyebrow at your decision to do this the way you did. I think there was some gamesmanship involved in your decision to do this. So not a full-fledged asshole but you really should have thought about the context a bit more than you did.
Yeah, the snide comment about FMIL trying to make her jealous makes OP look tacky AF and FMIL look even more classy and elegant.
YTA. You proposed in someone else's home without their permission, never a good idea. Even worse it was a holiday, which takes attention away from the family getting together and catching up to just celebrating the two of you. AND you've had issues with MIL in the past? Idk why you thought this was a good idea
> She is something of an attention seeker
Straight up asking — you don’t see the irony here?
I can’t believe how often this comes up. People use an event hosted by someone else to make an announcement or propose far more often that I ever suspected. If there is an event not in your honor, and you neither plan nor host it, you don’t use it as a backdrop.
> It was our Christmas to spend with Jake's family and his mom always goes way over the top with decorations, so it was like a winter wonder land and it just seemed like the perfect place.
So the woman who is an “attention seeker and one upper” creates a beautiful scene and you thought, “Sure! What the hell!” You had the ring with you because you planned to propose. And you didn’t ask your hosts of if it would be okay either due to ignorance or you knew they would veto it.
You really started this DIL gig on the wrong foot.
YTA, you don't propose at any event you aren't hosting unless you have the host's permission. Also in the middle of dinner? So tacky and attention seeky. You could have at minimum done it in private
YTA. Yes, I think there were other times during the day that might have been better. You really should have asked your FMIL as many have suggested. It’s ok for her to ask you not to. You could just as easily asked your man, OP, under the mistletoe at your own place! It could’ve been before and then they could’ve celebrated with you! (Hopefully, you would’ve told them in advance, since FMIL was already consulted in my scenario.)
YTA because you did hijack the event. When you want to propose to someone in a magical setting it's **your** responsibility to set up the magic, not to borrow it from someone else. You went to someone else's event and didnt ask them if they were okay with you hijacking it to propose.
YTA- you one upped her at her Christmas celebration in her house. You sound like the one upper.
Info: How does Jake feel about this situation?
Seems to be the unpopular opinion here, but I’d say definitely NTA. And I don’t know about anyone else here, but if my mother felt upset over a “ruined” Christmas dinner rather than absolute happiness that her son is getting engaged to a woman he loves, there’s something extremely wrong with her priorities.
I agree, and in reading the post, I'd just thought about how nice it was to do it at his favorite time of year/event. I can see where others are coming from with their Y-TAs in that not checking with the host is a bit rude. But overall NTA from me!
Same. I couldn't imagine my boyfriend's mother being anything but ecstatic that she got to witness it firsthand. I put on a big Christmas Eve dinner every year, which is by far the most expensive and time consuming dinner of the entire year, and I can't think of any person sharing any proposal or happy announcement that would "ruin" my dinner.
I don't feel like an annual Christmas dinner is an event anyone could "steal". It's not a milestone, it's a tradition, and there's a new one coming up in 363 days. I think of Christmas dinner as a family gathering instead of a party to impress with. To me, Christmas isn't about who is hosting it, it's about the family and friends gathering and enjoying each other.
I'd probably think differently if this were an independent party FMIL had hosted, but I find implying taking advantage of/detracting from a holiday event in this circumstance seems selfish and strange of the host. To me (and personally as a host), the Christmas celebration was never about the host anyway, so NTA in my book.
Agree 100% at this take. I am genuinely shocked at the response
She posted that they really didn’t get along in the first place. Why in the hell would you choose to propose in the home of someone who you didn’t get along with? She knew that there could possibly be an issue and did it anyway.
The paragraph that begins with “Jake’s dad was pretty confused…” really raised some flags about OP’s intentions with the timing. That section suggests that OP thought about it beforehand, anticipated that this would be a confrontational choice, and went ahead with a very public proposal in a way that thumbed her nose at BOTH of her fiancé’s parents. If we had a reason to think that OP had gotten swept up in the joy of the season and accidentally stepped on her future in-laws’ feelings, I would feel differently. But this was something that she thought through, knew would dig at her fiancé’s parents, and still didn’t check in with them first. YTA, but you can salvage this with an apology explaining your original logic behind wanting to combine Christmas and your proposal.
YTA, it was inconsiderate in several ways. It's an event someone else is hosting. It puts your partner on the spot - what if the answer was no? Just a lot of potential for making people uncomfortable or making the occasion about the wrong thing. Not a great way to start a marriage, TBH.
Another vote for light YTA. You should have run it by his mom since it was her celebration. If you wanted to propose at Christmas maybe you should have gone away to do that, not done it in front of the family.
Maybe a tiny bit YTA. In my humble opinion, you should have asked the parents if it is okay to use her family dinner for your proposal.
>Jake's dad was pretty confused but he is the old school type and kept asking what was going on and if I was really proposing. I did anticipate that he would have some issues with a woman proposing
YTA. The fact that you called this out specifically gives a hint to me that you did this more as a 'fuck you' to the parents more than a 'i want to marry you' kind of thing'.
These are going to be your in-laws (assuming things to right) - this is where you choose to pick the battle? This is what you choose to fight over?
You didn't do this with the intention of 'i know his parents will love and appreciate it' - it's obvious you did it for the exact opposite reasons. And that makes you a huge asshole.
>She is something of an attention seeker and one upper, and just that morning had been trying to make me jealous with the jewelry her husband got her.
And you're not? You did this at someone else's house, during their party. Lol.
If you didn't want attention, you could've privately proposed to your boyfriend in a similar way which felt special.
Going with YTA. Your own words DO make it seem like you hijacked the dinner, “his mom also goes over the top with decorations, so it was like a winter wonder land and it just seemed like the perfect place.” Ok, but if that was the case why didn’t ask her first since it was her event? Not only did you not ask, you said you did it DURING her Christmas dinner.
Also this comment, “I did anticipate that he would have some issues with a woman proposing.” So you literally knew it would cause at least some issue and you still did it in this setting.
Cool that you wanted to propose, but because you said you’ve had issues with the parents in the past it comes off as passive aggressive and actually cheapens the proposal. If I was your fiancé, I’d be upset because it seems like you wanted to irritate the parents more than anything else.
Sorry to say but I think NTA. I'm sure I'll get massively downvoted based on the other comments. Seems to me that any family who love each other would have been ecstatic to witness this lovely thing. Why does it have to be so awful to have done this at someone else's house? She wasn't trying to monopolise the gathering. Are people so obsessed with 'owning' everything that a family can't be happy about something together for once?
I was confused as well. Our family Christmas dinners are more about family and not about the person who's house we are at. Everyone would be estatic if something as heartwarming as a wedding proposal happened at a generic family get together like Christmas dinner.
totally agree NTA
i'm going to say mild YTA because you should have cleared it with his family first, some people are not comfortable having their event hijacked by something else like an engagement or pregnancy announcement. if you had asked beforehand if it was okay for you to propose during the party it would be fine.
YTA and obviously don't like your future in-laws.
YTA along with everyone else who proposes as a public spectacle. (If a proposal is on the jumbotron, is "no" really an option?)
The big Christmas dinner is a known, planned spectacular for the cook. And you hijacked that for your spectacular.
I disagree about public proposals; IF you are sure your SO will say yes (you have talked about it, you have looked at rings, it only a question of when but not if) and they aren't easily embarrassed, public proposals can be ok.
Hmmm, very light YTA on this. You should have run by the idea considering it was at somebody else’s home and celebration.
YTA proposals are supposed to be planned occasions. If you use an event that someone else planned to try and make your proposal special that’s an asshole move. Would have been fine if you cleared it with his mom first
YTA - You just don't ask someone in marriage in a party for something else (only acceptable if the hosts are okay with that). Also calling you MIL a attention seeker say a lot about you
YTA - I would feel pretty disrespected if i was hosting a celebration at my house and someone proposed without consulting with me first. Although I wouldn't have made a big deal of it, it's still kind of rude
I disagree w these comments. somehow I think you’re NTA. If you proposed during someone else’s celebration, like a bday or a baby shower I’d say that was out of line for stealing their spotlight. But Christmas is about everyone coming together and for me seems like a good setting to propose in. I think your fiancee’s mum is being a bit self centred, saying HER dinner was hijacked and by this age she should know that not everything on this planet revolves around her. What surprises me even more, was that her son is literally ENGAGED and she doesn’t care. Her first reaction should’ve been happiness as this is a big milestone for both of you. I feel she is either just too self involved or perhaps she has a personal problem with you and is using this whole dinner thing as an excuse to take out her anger
Lightly YTA for springing that on the hosts of a get together; it wasn’t your party.
YTA slightly. If you want to propose at someone else's event then ask them if they are fine with it. It would have allowed your future MIL to anticipate FIL's reaction and she would not have felt hijacked.
Why did you have to do it at dinner? Why not sometime when you two were alone? Maybe before dessert out admiring the decorations on your own?
In any case, major asshole move on your part.
YTA a little. I think you should have considered how you'd be shifting the focus of their celebration towards your relationship. Maybe they would have received it better had you run it by them first. You could have come to a compromise, even. Why did it have to be at dinner and not at any other point in the day? You could have gone off for a private moment at any other time. They should be happy for you and their son, but it's understandable why they're upset. You mentioned that the mother was trying to instigate jealousy that morning? Seems like you may have wanted to get back at her, too. Either way, ask someone before you propose at their party! Congratulations on the engagement💕
I find it interesting that you called her an attention seeker and one-upper when you decided to use her hard work/hosting as a backdrop for your public proposal. The only attention seeker and one-upper suggested here is…you, I’m afraid.
It was up to you to create the scene for your proposal, and whether you intended it or not, you made this event about you and Jake. A host works really hard to put a family holiday event together, you should have asked permission before you proposed there.
I think the real issue is that you are feeling a little guilty for hijacking her hosted event. In your gut, you know you misstepped. Just apologize and smooth things over.
YTA I don’t like people who hijack group events or other people’s events. I also don’t like being forced to be a spectator in someone else’s moment. More than anything, I hate public proposals. I find them manipulative and attention seeking
YTA if you are going to propose to some one at someone else's house or event you have to clue them in!
YTA. I think you should have told them or asked their permission to propose at their holiday dinner. The in-laws might not be great, which might be an understatement, but it's still their home and their event. You obviously don't like them and did something you knew they probably wouldn't appreciate, even if it was for a good reason.
YTA. this was a family Christmas Dinner to celebrate Christmas, not you.
Your proposal should have been saved for another time
YTA. It was his family Christmas but his mother was hosting and she clearly put a lot of effort into it. You should have had the courtesy to ask her permission before hijacking the dinner especially as there was already tension in the relationship. Christmas or not, when you are at somebody else's event, you check that it's okay before proposing or announcing a major life event. If you wanted to propose but didn't want to let his parents know your intentions, you could have gone for a romantic post dinner walk and proposed in private.
YTA. Ask the parents if its okay to propose at their hosted party first. You're very rude.
Your MIL-to-be clearly put a lot of time and effort into Christmas as you’ve described it as the perfect winter wonderland. It’s pretty tactless to hijack the effort someone put into a holiday event that is supposed to be about family as a *whole* to make it about you and your now-fiancé. Had you hosted, helped plan/decorate, or given her a heads up, it would’ve been a different story.
Given the fact that you’ve had previous issues with her, coupled with the way you talk about her (i.e. “she’s a one upper and attention seeker”), there’s no doubt in my mind that you *knew* this would bother her; It seems that in this scenario you did something - whether consciously or subconsciously - that would one up her and undermine her efforts. You were definitely out of line and it’s likely you’ve created a whole new set of issues.
Did you at least give them a heads up? Normally you would let the hosts in on it before proposing at their home. Does your fiance agree with you on this or does he agree with his parents? I would say soft YTA. It sounds like you had good intentions but didn't really consider your future in laws.
So you made an event as intimate as a marriage proposal directly in front of his family? And Mom is the attention seeker?
NTA. I don’t think it’s hijacking someone’s event when it’s a holiday gathering. Now if it was someone’s birthday party, engagement party, or obviously someone else’s wedding, that would be rude as h. I think there is more to it than she will ever admit. They are not ok with you, the engagement, or you being the one to propose.
>I don’t think it’s hijacking someone’s event when it’s a holiday gathering.
You are obviously entitled to your own opinion and judgment but I think you should realize you are in a very slim majority with this opinion. Almost everyone else recognizes that if someone else is hosting the party then it's their event and you don't propose without getting their permission in advance or else it is considered extremely rude.
>They are not ok with you, the engagement, or you being the one to propose.
I agree with you on this. OP is clearly not liked by the parents.
Based on OP’s behavior in this scenario, Jake’s parents are probably right to have some reservations/misgivings.
If they're like me they probably don't actually care if other people disagree with them. Sometimes I am in full agreement with this sub, but other times I think everyone has lost their mind and this is a time where it's the latter, lol. Christmas is not like an engagement or wedding and the MIL sounds incredibly self-involved.
I agree this sub can be bonkers sometimes but this isn't one of them. It's a very real thing that proposing at a dinner party or other event without the host's permission is socially frowned upon. Obviously a wedding is the most extreme version of this but any event that is hosted by someone else falls under this same umbrella. You might personally not care but it doesn't stop it from being a very real social etiquette rule.
- wasn't your event
- you didn't host
- you didn't ask the host
- you took over a family event for yourself
- you did use everyone to make the celebration for you so that you didn't have to put in that work
- now all Christmas celebrations will have this attention-seeking cloud over it and they'll have to constantly wonder if you're going to use their hard work for yourself again
You have no respect for them as hosts.
YTA. If you and your husband plan a fancy engagement party, buy everyone a nice dinner, and have the venue decorated beautifully, your MIL should announce her pregnancy. Why not? It'll be a beautiful venue and have a nice meal! The day can become about them after all your hard work. But you won't mind, right? Because YOU'RE not an attention seeker...
I think the issue with the proposal is that the fiancé’s mother doesn’t like OP and consequently resented unexpectedly playing host to the proposal. If she was looking forward to her son’s engagement she would probably have been happy about it. OP may be TA because they proposed when they knew it wouldn’t go down well, which is a bit like gloating.
You told us in your own words that you already know that she is an attention-seeker and a one-upper - so you demanded attention and one-upped her holiday dinner and winter wonderland. How did you honestly anticipate this being received?
YTA. Not your event. A five minute conversation would have helped or stopped this
YTA. You didn't even have the courtesy to ask the hosts if this would be ok. They had clearly put an awful lot of effort into hosting and your made it all about you.
You did use her - her decorations and meal to celebrate. You did hijack dinner. Some people might not mind this, but she did.
YTA Completely out of line. You NEVER propose at someone else's event. NOT EVER! You owe his mother a huge apology. And a real one, 'I'm sorry I... ' not 'I'm sorry you got upset'.
YTA - public proposals are cringey anyway but this is someone else's house - you didn't have a wonderful meal to celebrate - it was Christmas dinner that someone else prepared!
Oh ya YTA. you hijack a dinner for this and she is the one upper? She is the attention seeker? Wow and he may not say it because he loves you but you put him on the spot in front of family. Of course he is gonna say yes . If he would have said no it would destroyed the festivities..
First congratulations on the engagement, second, I'm sorry but I have to go with YTA on this one. I'm not saying it's wrong to propose at Christmas dinner, but you probaby should square things with the hosts first before doing this. I kind of snicker when you said 'she's something of an attention seeker and one upper'...because ha, one can argue you're the person doing that at the Christmas dinner hosted by her.
Then again, I always assume when I heard proposal stories happening during Christmas dinners in the past, the proposer usually talked to the hosts first before doing going down on one knee.
Yesterday was my first time NOT hosting Christmas dinner in over a decade (and I've known how much work gone into hosting-prepping for people to come and enjoy themselves) and it was great to have someone else totally responsible for everything lol, and I would think if I had some sort of 'announcement' or 'proposal' to make, I would do the common courtesy to let the host know first before 'taking over' the festivity they've worked so hard to prep.
ETA: If you're uncomfortable to let them know before you proposed and you kind of have had 'bad blood' before..what made you think that the proposal situation would go over well with his family? If anything, this might even make your relationship with his family worse. Not saying that it can't be 'fixed' on the road, but it doesn't make things smoother either.
You do not propose at someone else’s event with out clearing it with them so yes YTA
YTA. It is utterly disrespectful to propose at an event without full approval from the host. You did make it all about yourself and Jake without her permission.
Well we can tell who has 0 creativity in their life. YTA OP
>It was our Christmas to spend with Jake's family and his mom always goes way over the top with decorations, so it was like a winter wonder land and it just seemed like the perfect place.
So not only did you do something you suspected your own fiance wouldn't like but you stole someone else's atmosphere because you were too lazy and cheap to make your own?
Gentle YTA, only because you didn't check in with the hosts first. Even if they were the most wonderful, angelic people, it's common courtesy to check in first so they can let you know if there's any reason you shouldn't do it. (say, a family member going through a divorce or some other issue which might deem your proposal insensitive during that time.)
YTA for proposing at her event AND for assuming his mom is a drama queen trying to make you jealous when she most likely was simply sharing her pleasure in a gift her husband gave her. It sounds like you’re projecting a lot.
Not your event. Not your family. Not your venue.
If you really "had" to do it, you should have asked for a moment alone with him. Instead you hijacked everyone's attention and put on a spectacle.
YTA. I find it extremely selfish to propose at someone else's event, you make it about you. In a similar vein I also think it's generally a bad idea to propose on holidays, birthdays etc (so someone else's Christmas party is a huge yikes for me). Make your own moment/day, don't take over others.
I dont think you should propose until you got permission to do so at the dinner so the parents are aware
Should have run it by his mom first.
Did you seriously just finish this post by accusing MIL of being an attention seeker? When you just pulled the biggest attention seeking stunt ever, at a totally inappropriate time? Hahahahahaha. YTA.
Eh esh. I would think if you're going to propose at someone else's house, you would probably want to tell them first. I feel like a guest should not be surprising the host with anything. But despite this, the parents just needed to drop it and shut up and not ruin the moment
They didn’t ruin the moment, they are irritated afterwards
Minor YTA - why would you not just ask/give heads up?
YTA. Maybe you should have asked the parents since it was their house.
YTA because you didn’t clear it with the host. When someone else is hosting the get together, they pay for the decorations, meal, set up and clean up. They also do all the planning and coordinating of everyone’s schedules. As such, it is a lot of work. And any big announcement, gesture, or proposal should be cleared with them first. If is common courtesy to do so. The fact that you didn’t was rude.
Whether you're a man or in your case a woman making a marriage proposal, certain rules still apply not matter what. This was his family's holiday event being hosted by his mom at her home. YTA. You don't hijack another person's event wedding, shower, birthday, anniversary or other social event for your proposal without their permission.
YTA. It’s not your house, you didn’t host it, and you didn’t spend time making that beautiful set up that you talked about. By your own words, there have been issues in the past with her, so WHY did you think that was a good time to put yourself in the spotlight? You call her an attention seeker and one upper, do you own a mirror?
Wow really surprised people think your TA here??? Honestly other than maybe knowing if your partner is okay with a public proposal, the family's reaction seems insane to me. For me it's NTA.
I think YTA in this occasion. Proposing at Christmas is a nice idea, but if you we were going to take advantage of Jake's mom decorations and cooking, you should have asked her first.
You said it yourself that it looked like a "winter wonderland". Jake's mom devoted a lot of time, effort and probably money to creating a nice vibe, and you took advantage of that to have a perfect proposal with zero effort on your part. She basically inadvertently organized your proposal for you, for free. You used her and that's not OK
I think it's in poor taste to use someone else's event to make major announcements/propose, at all, but ESPECIALLY if you did not ask for permission from the hosts.
Yeah bro it’s their family Christmas dinner. Did you even stop to think what Jake might have wanted? Maybe he wanted an intimate setting? And the fact that you didn’t even ASK IF IT WAS OKAY
Never hijack someone else's celebration for your own announcement or proposal UNLESS YOU CLEAR IT WIH THEM FIRST. And if they say no or look less than thrilled, don't proceed.
So sadly YTA here. Your heart was in the right place. You just weren't thinking it through.
You are always an AH if you propose or make a big family announcement at someone else's event without first checking with them
You were not hosting. It sounds like you didn't even inquire if it'd be alright to steal the attention away from the meal, or the event all together. YTA. Have some grace and apologize to your 'future' mil. Especially if you love partner.
I think it’s always on the safe side to ask someone if it’s ok to propose at their event. No matter what it is cover your ass. Get it in text or writing
YTA His dad probably snickered because the proposal was probably tacky. I hope you have a long enough engagement so you can grow up before you get married. As it stands, you’re a heading in the direction of ending up in a wedding shaming post. You owe your FMIL a sincere humble apology for overstepping your boundaries.
YTA here for your original question... you should not have done it during her dinner. It was not your event to hijack, which is what you did.
NTA. Swimming against the tide here, but it's not someone's specific life event, like a birthday or a wedding. Christmas is a time for everyone, for love.
Yeah YTA - why didn’t you run the idea by his parents first? It’s really not appropriate to propose at any event that isn’t yours without prior permission. If you’d asked them for their blessing or at least given them a heads up you would have known how they felt and it wouldn’t have blown up in your face like this.
NTA. It’s a family event and OP was showing that she wants to be a part of this family enough that she wanted them to be present for a relationship milestone.
INFO: did you think this through before proposing publicly in front of his entire family? And also, Christmas is his favorite time of year, did you think about how if y'all don't work out then you've ruined Christmas for him for a long time.
You should've asked permission first. It was someone else's event and you made it about your engagement
If she already knew his family was old school and knew they would find her asking him out of the norm.Then not asking for permission first at his patents home is a double whammy of rude.
YTA for proposing in front of other people. Only assholes do that shit
If I put all the work into planning a big family event, I want to enjoy what I planned. I hate being the center of attention, but I want to see everyone enjoying my effort, hear people complimenting my cooking, and yes, even be embarrassed for a few minutes when people thank me for all my hard work. I don't want to be the center of attention, but I want my hard work to be acknowledged and appreciated.
If I put that much effort in and someone who resents me hijacked my party for their own purpose I'd be LIVID.
Seems the attention tone seeking one upper was you OP. Way to hijack someone's else's party because YOu volunteered put in the effort to make you're own "winter wonderland" . You used MILs party because she decorates and you didn't want to put that effort in for your finace
YTA: IT was someone elses' party and event, not yours. That's just rude as heck.
Also- while a LOT of people do this, it should be noted that proposing on ANY holiday carries a lot of weight with it. Meaningfully, if things go bad- you will ALWAYS remember the proposal as taking place on that holiday- and now that gets to be a constant annual reminder. People don't usually take the time they should to really consider ALL the possible consequences.
YTA for sure. Has nothing to do with gender roles.
Not just because you proposed at someone else's event, bc for Christmas I think that would be mostly tacky and rude but not necessarily AHish in every circumstance.
However, you acknowledged that you knew it would bother your fiance's dad and mom prior to proposing. I think you were trying to be an instigator. If I was your fiance, I wouldn't marry someone that is trying to alienate my parents.
YTA for not clearing it with the host first. Never EVER propose at someone else’s event without asking the host first.
Yeah, you did make it about you. If you were going to do that you should have asked permission of the hosts. Would you have done that at someone's wedding without getting permission? YTA
YTA. Basic courtesy would be not to propose at someone else’s event. That’s the worst form of free-loading.
Hum.... NTA... I don't see the problem with taking 5 minutes out of a long family meal to propose, drink champagne and move on with the rest of the evening.
The best would have been to warn your MIL, but apparently, she would have said no ! 😂
No no... NTA