That's why cheap lift kits end up costing a lot more than the expensive ones


Modifying any car properly costs far more than most people realize before doing it. Then the shortcuts are taken, corners are cut and vehicles get ruined. My fav is people lifting trucks and not getting an alignment afterwards driving around with enough positive camber for me to notice it in my mirror.


>costs far more Nah brah the turbo for the mustang is only $750, so it cant cost me more than $1K to make safe 15psi of boost right? .......


$250 budget is doable, as long as you don't count parts bin stuff, materials & labor. Just like most TV builds. "Back with the budget turbo build.... Summit racing sent us this sweet..."


That always annoyed me. ‘Cheap horsepower…as long as you have these parts sent to you free and have free labor’


We built this 383 out of parts laying around. It makes 650hp and we spent $62.


I built this exhaust with some scrap stainless I had lying around, and 4hours of my dad's TIG welding skills, which I value at 2 beers.


Well, it’s a budget build you could all do at home. /s


Only 92 hours of off screen labor while we pretend it's a weekend DIY project


That's the one that gets me. When it's like, "even 20 people working all weekend wouldn't be able to turn this around because there's too many steps that can't be solved by adding more people." I love it when the car just goes from primer and bare metal to all painted up and ready to go in 5 minutes, as well. I've painted cars before, that's _totally how it works..._


I’ve watched Monster Garage, I know you can get this back to me in two days.


Did you just have a spare bottle of NO2 and filled it up with $62? :p


Always loved the $500.00 Monster Garage builds that had $50,000 in free parts.


>Monster Garage *Core memory unlocked.* I forgot all about that show...


Yeah for no more than 10 minutes


You only need 10 minutes because it's so intense


*It's business, it's business time*


Now I’m naked except for my socks


That’s why they call them business socks


I've had this song stuck in my head for a while, and this is the first time I've ever seen it mentioned on reddit.


I’m wearing an old t shirt from my work.


Team Building Exercise '99, baby.


Deep cut. Thank you for this!


10 minutes in heaven is better than 1 minute in heaven


It's manifold time


This is kind of what we did with our LeMons car. 130k mile Del Sol with original D15 motor and a T25 turbo/intercooler off a DSM. I want to say we paid about $500 for the parts and another $500 in dyno tuning time. I forget the pressure but we were at 170 - 180 WHP/WTQ. It did eventually blow up: piston 3 filed for divorce from conrod, wedged at TDC, put hole in back of block under intake manifold, was a bitch to find. However, that was after 2 years, several trackdays, a number of autocrosses, and 2 endurance races. The car was stupid quick and hella fun while it lasted but we decided to just go with a JDM non-VTEC B20b without a turbo after that for reliability.


Some guy is asking about an $800 eBay turbo kit for D15 engines on r/crx. Nobody has had the heart to tell him, so far.


He’ll learn. We all did at one point, I remember my friend coming into class saying he got a turbo for his Corolla (this was late 90s, early 00s). It was one of those electric fans you put in your intake. I couldn’t kill his buzz. I had to let the $60 price of disappointment do that on its own. Edit: fat thumb/iPhone errors


LMFAO That's amazing.


Lmao. I had a coworker that bought one of those and asked me to install it in his '87 Lincoln mk7. It actually decreased the horsepower because it restricted the intake. I thought it was hilarious, he wasn't too happy about wasting money buying the part and paying me to install it and then remove it.


I remember the MK VIII, my brother had one when he was 16 and I rode with him one time and never again. He was always a little crazy and never really gave much thought to consequences. I don't know what the top end really was cause the speedo stopped at 140, but the needle tried to keep going.


[181.7, give or take.](https://www.hemmings.com/stories/2018/04/24/that-time-lincoln-built-a-land-speed-mark-viii-and-set-a-182-mph-record-at-bonneville) Although the one you were in was modded, they had a governor well below 140.


>2 years, several trackdays, a number of autocrosses, and 2 endurance races. I mean, id say that's incredibly good


This is why LeMons can't be fun anymore. The rules specifically say $500 total, but this guy over here spending $1k. Sort of /s


Yes and no. The judges took one look at our rustbucket with a turbo slapped on and said, "Yah, you're going to have a rough time." And they were right. The first event with the turbo, it literally [fell](https://imgur.com/6KgQuXj) [off](https://imgur.com/R1W3Onc) the [engine](https://imgur.com/mwO9xWe). The second event, the front left wheel came off coming out of a corner (split the hub in half). The third LeMons event, it grenaded on the front straight as the green flag was dropped.




The turbo fell off at the end of a race as a result of the exhaust pipe not having a flex joint in it. Repeated stress of the engine rocking back and forth on the mounts turned the exhaust collector into a flex joint, a task for which it was ill-suited. The collector was welded back together, reinforced, and a flex joint was added.


Next time use some bailing wire and slap it say "that's not going anywhere."


Like all motor sports, lemons is about cheating just as much as it is about following the rules


Those are rookie numbers. My Volvo pushes 23psi, mustangs should be able to do 30! /s


Reminds me of my buddy and his WRX.


Yeah, it can definitely hit 15 psi at least once...


When I put my lift in the very first place I drove to was the shop to get an alignment, after spending that much on parts I don't understand why you wouldn't pay the nominal cost for an alignment too


It's like the guys with the $80k muscle car asking if they really have to use $3 worth of distilled water in the radiator after a flush or if tap is fine Or the guys with the new motorcycle asking if they really need to change the oil every year or if they can get away with every 10 years because it's 10k mile oil and they only put on 1k a year.


“Why would I need an alignment I just lifted it straight up?”


It wasn’t even an option for me - all part of the package and I couldn’t even pick it up before the alignment (I’m sure I *could have* but they really stressed the importance of the alignment). Quality shop, and in the four years I had the truck after the lift, it never gave me any issues.


People are cheap and dumb


Is this some sort of independent suspension thing i'm too solid axle to understand?


I also don't see what is wrong here. I don't know much about suspension, ~~but I think a lift kit is meant to increase ground clearance, but this one is actually reducing the ground clearance from the stock suspension?~~ Edit: found it in the comments lower down: the lift changed the position of the axle, so they cut right through the frame (those 2 bits above the lift frame are supposed to be attached) to get the axle in. The truck can never go back to stock.


My (uneducated) guess is that the lift kit only lowered the mounting points for the control arms, but not the differential. Thus drastically increasing the angle on the CV axles, and shortening their life. But I've not seen an actual explanation on the issue.


The frame has been cut to fit the drive shaft


Well shit. I'm glad I get to share the road with this idiot (same state as me apparently).


Prob not insanely dangerous. It looks like the kit came with a part that solidifies the cross member that was cut. It's the piece below the driveshaft that connects the two pieces of the old cross member.


>>Prob not insanely dangerous Might be later after winter salt does it’s work. Fortunately Toyota Tacoma truck frames *NEVER* rust, amirite?


I knew someone that lowered their car by pulling up each wheel on a steep hill and then wrapping metal wiring around to hold it. That’s what he told me he was doing anyway.


I've seen people lower trucks by heating up the coils with a torch until they deformed Can't forget the hockey puck lifts either




Back home about 20 years ago there was this Dodge Valiant running around we jokingly called the violent valiant. Owner took the cutting touch to the springs and they where so soggy afterwards it will hit the smallest bump and bounce around for about 100 feet while moving forward. We had 2 one way streets everyone liked to cruise up and down and you'd see this guy making laps in this car just hopping along like nothing was wrong.


This was super common in the late 80s / early 90s when lowering was more popular than it is now. My friend did that to his moms car but kept it hot too long and it and sagged so far down his mom had to get the springs replaced. I recall it being heated electronically but I don't fully remember the details.


I worked at a Dodge dealership for a time. Customers would look at the big lifted truck outside and ask for the price. I would break it down (the 6" lift alone would often cost $7-8k, plus the wheels and 37" tires) and end up being $12k over sticker price and they were astounded. Most calmed down when I told them it was a Mopar lit, installed by Mopar techs, so their warranty would still be valid. Then ask to see a non-lifted truck.


> Then ask to see a non-lifted truck. Did they need to show proof of DUI to buy a Ram, or is it implied?


Military ID works, too.




*~~serpent~~ salesman slaps roof* "My finance guy can get you into this bad boy for AT LEAST 20% interest, which is a deal you won't find anywhere else!"


Ram was running a 20k off special a few years ago went to look at it for a shop truck only to find out that rebate was for sub prime borrowers only and started at 17%.


Worst I ever saw was when a young Airman purchased a used Dodge Stratus with 24% interest from a local big name dealership. Dealerships near bases are extremely predatory.


*28% APR intensifies*


They let me buy one so I could get the DUI in it.


Not many people know about the dui on loan program


What?! Permanently ruining the frame for some aftermarket junk? Totally worth it.


Oh my, I didn’t even notice he cut the frame to get the drive shaft in. Holy cow


I looked at the pics and was thinking, "what's the problem?"


Holy shit same here until I read that comment, fucking lol.


Hi, rookie here... I still don't see it, but I do bad with pictures anyway. Where should I look?


In the second pic, look at the driveshaft. Now look to the left do you see the straight cut thru the frame crossmember? Now look to right of driveshaft do you see where the crossmember was cut there? Right where the driveshaft is currently they removed a big chunk of the frame. They replaced it with that bolt in crossmember that’s below the driveshaft Edit: https://imgur.com/a/iM7n3fr I circled the cuts


Oh shit, I see it now. Jesus.


It is so bad that it is hard to spot. Like, you wouldn't normally think this would be something someone would willingly do with a relatively new vehicle.


Idk how someone can afford a new-ish Tacoma, but somehow not afford the brains to not sawzall an enormous chunk out of the frame.


OP said it is a TRD Pro. There's a weird group of TRD Pro Tacoma and 4Runner buyers who just have way more money than common sense. They'll buy a $50k truck and spend many thousands more making it _less_ capable. Like, they could get an SR5 for way less and do all the dumb shit to it, but they want that badge on it from the dealer before they start doing weird stuff to it.


I thought that's what it was and then my brain was like "nah, no one is that dumb." Turns out my brain was wrong. Again.


Holy shit, I was looking for like a small cutout or something similar that ruined the structural integrity, not literally removing a chunk of it


Don’t feel bad. I’m not a rookie but it still took me a minute to realize what I was looking at.


oh...oh my god, I was looking for some holes in the frame and didn't comprehend that they just removed an entire section of the frame.


Same, I was super thrown off. My 3rd gen 4runner has the drive shaft further back because the transfer case is much further back as well. I was wondering what I was looking at.


Thanks for the picture! I wish the OPs in this sub would add a note like yours for us car enthusiasts who know jack about the details of mechanisms lol


Where was the drive shaft before?


Up above the now-cut crossmember, they have to drop the front differential to maintain axle angles, so the driveshaft goes lower


Which means you get no more clearance, other than however much larger your tires are.


They’ll get a bit more because they’ll run more extreme angles, but yea not much. I think the 4” lifts have a 2” diff drop but I don’t remember 100% and that’s on few years older models. Also the tires will add most of the clearance




See the round thing in the middle with the chrome bolts and rust ? that's the drive shaft.Left and right of that you can see someone cut off a large portion of what is called the frame. The frame is important, if it fails your car crumbles into pieces (so cutting bits of it off is a really dumb idea)


I mean, how important is the frame *really*?


Cars have been made without them for decades now so clearly not important. /s


I think there’s still some old Tundras on the road with the frame completely rusted away.


Normal laws of physics don't apply to Toyota trucks.


Wait, maybe a dumb question but how was the drive shaft attached before if the frame was there?


Okay so serious question tho.. what are the implications of cutting into the frame like this? Not as safe during an accident? Have to report the modification upon selling? Value decreased?


This lift kit essentially moves the entire vehicle's suspension down (instead of replacing it with components that can just travel further). Unfortunately that would put the front driveshaft right in the way of the front crossmember. So this kit has them cut the crossmember right out. If this were some properly engineered weld-in kit, it *might* have been okay. But the new cross member is only being held in by one bolt on each side (the bolt where the control arm would have originally gone). This means the new cross member can only stop the frame rails from spreading - it can no longer manage torsion (twisting) - as it will just pivot on the bolts. The truck will likely be floppier in turns, and develop more squeaks and rattles faster. The best part is the half of the original cross member is still there, holding up the transmission, except now it's only supported on one side - turning the whole thing into a diving board. The engine/transmission are probably bouncing around like crazy while driving.


Thanks for the explanation. I was looking at it, seeing the frame cut thinking it's bad, but not terrible since they had the "replacement" frame bolted underneath. So all in all, it sucks just in general now.


The transmission mounting probably has to be the worst part about this.


Certainly not an expert here but I would say pretty much all of those things. I feel like it would be comparable to modifying the foundation of your house. I know most insurance companies will total cars if there is decent frame damage.


Not as safe during...not an accident. I'd be worried about just about everything. At least they could have welded in the new crossmember. It'd still be retarded, but maybe a few percent less retarded.


Most 6" lift kits require cutting the frame and installing a new subframe to drop the lower control arms. The differential also drops down with it so the CV axles don't end up with crazy angles and bind, and the diff actually gets tilted slightly to correct the driveline angle as well. This still increases ground clearance by allowing a larger diameter tire to clear the rest of the truck so it's not as pointless as it looks at a glance. There isn't really a way around cutting the frame for bigger lifts like this. Basically every truck with a lift bigger than 5" is going to have the frame cut like this. When I did these at the shop I worked at we would cut plates and weld em in to box and reinforce the cut part of the old frame. We also made cut guides for most trucks and used a plasma cutter to get a consistent and decent edge then painted it all so it looked good but I don't think it's the norm for shops to care about all that extra effort. There's no way to go back to stock but how many people trying to buy a stock truck are going to look at one with a massive lift and huge wheels and think it's a good idea to buy it and return it to stock?


My buddy did a small frame notch in his lowered VW Jetta and told me it would be considered totaled after that (never had to do an insurance claim so not confirmed). But based on that, I'd be shocked if this wasn't totaled. It is a Tacoma though so it's prolly worth $10k even with frame damage lol.


The next owner will just need to call Toyota and get this frame recalled. It's all good 👌


Don't know shit about cars. Came to the comments to find the issue. Can't imagine why anyone would want to cut apart the main structural body of their vehicle lol. That's like just chainsawing the pillars in your basement cause they're in the way of where you wanna put your pool table.


Nothing like buying a $50k truck and destroying it with an eBay lift.


Better off with an eBay truck and $50k gear under it. That way monsters be.


This Donut Media comment brought to you by Ebay Motors


oh yeah i forgot to mention the truck is still on stock springs and struts.


Fine for a pavement princess.


that’s the real shame. it’s a TRD pro. it used to be able to wheel. edit. i was wrong. it’s a trd off-road.


This is the real shame. They SEVERELY reduced this trucks capability when trying to improve it.


bold to assume they were trying to improve it. they were trying to make it look tougher. totally different.


The kinda truck for people who fantasize about situations where vehicular manslaughter is justified legally.


It’s probably a Bro Pro (fake badges and grill). The Pro has different fog lights and a TRD Pro badge beneath the side mirrors instead of the Tacoma emblem at the bottom of the front doors. Follow me for more useless knowledge


Don't think Pro was ever offered in quicksand either.




I wanted a lift on my '18 until I started doing the research. Cured that want pretty quick.


Same with my 17, I run stock sized aftermarket rims and ATs for the forest access roads I take camping. Does exactly what I need it to do, rides pretty much the same and milage hasn't dropped significantly. Re-gearing is not in the budget for my daily, which rules out a proper lift and larger wheels among other things.


I was going to lift my Gen2 but also came to the realization that it’s just not worth compromising the ride quality and longevity of parts to essentially just pay way more at the pump to “look cool”. Plus, my stock with AT tires Tacoma is amazingly agile off road, and barring rock climbing, it goes everywhere without much issue.


If i wanted to go any harder i would build a dedicated can am maverick or something. At tires get me almost anywhere stock. Spent too long in the jeep money pit


I just bought a 2005 Gen2. It has spacers on the springs, but that's it. Has stupid mud tires on it right now, so I'm ditching those and their wheels for some newer Toyota OEM takeoffs with AT tires. Ride quality is pretty good right now though.


I’m planning to do a mild 1-2” one called the old man emu kit to my first gen. Thing is, I’ve inherited this truck with 300k miles on it (a lot of it forestry road), so just about every suspension component is worn out anyways. Given I’m about to rebuy the whole suspension regardless, is a mild lift a bad idea? I’m also a shade-tree who doesn’t know what I’m looking at, so when I crawled underneath to see what was worn out looking, the truck was basically like “Yes”. So I just greased whatever zerks I could find and made assumptions I should do the ball joints at least.


Go with OME’s and Elka 2.0’s, just did that for my 3rd Gen 4runner and threw some 33’s on it with a 1” diff drop. It’s now a beast and rides better than stock, even on E rated KO2’s!


Same when I had my 17. It's like anything to get you on 33s needs a CMC at a minimum, no thanks.


Low profile mud tires, for the discerning mall crawler


At least the cuts are clean.


Found the installer!


To be faaaaair, the cuts are clean.


I actually posted about the cuts prior to seeing yours. I was totally expecting a jagged cut with an acetelyne torch.


Till the cancer sets in


That’s my first thought too. Weren’t even smart enough to hit the fresh cuts with some paint. Or weld the frame shut so dirt doesn’t accumulate in the gaping holes they created.


Welding was never in the budget


also the lower support for the front diff wasn’t even finger tight. 44k miles and not a dent in it, but the owner has already ruined it.


It’ll be listed on Craigslist as “immaculate condition, all the mods” for $60,000 in 6 months.


or folded in half at the bottom of a very small hill in the snow


Yep, all I can see is the whole front folding up in front of the windshield the second it comes down from a short drop or they start going uphill too fast.


Ouch. What did you guys say to the customer? Anything? I wouldn't be confident sending the truck out the door the way it is. Either liability release, refusal to work on it, or, I doubt your shop does it but, finish the install by boxing and welding in the necessary support.


it came from a shady used lot in our area. telling them wouldn’t do anything. we’ve made note of it, and we’re going to mention it, but it’ll be back out on the road tomorrow anyway.


Holy shit....wtf how are they even allowed to drive that legally?? If they leave and get in an accident wouldn't your shop be liable?


we didn’t install the lift. we would never.


Wow, Fuel makes some hideous wheels. Tacomas look so weird with bro wheels and massive lifts. But hey, at least the tires aren't poking a foot past the fenders. I'll bet this guy also whines about gas prices constantly. Okay, old man rant over.


- Modding your vehicle - $10,000 - Losing 5mpg - $2000 a year - Randomly having your vehicle posted on r/justrolledintotheshop priceless


I'm convinced the people that made hideous rice wheels back in 2000 now all moved to trucks. It's like the same crowd.


All of this is valid. Don't see a rant


33’s on Fuel rims with no re-gearing and Tacoma owners…name a more iconic duo…I’ll wait.


35s, cheap rough country kit and a wrangler


Ding Ding... We got a winner.


Any MOPAR really, Rams are just as guilty here


Ram owner here, I'm choosing to believe that people are wising up to how bad RC lifts are since I don't see them recommended nearly as much on the forums. 🤞


Every kit that lifts utilizing new crossmembers and spindles will do this. R/C gets a bad name because of how accessible it is for shade trees and DIY. Most brands are selling a name. Nothing wrong with this as long as the customer is educated on what you’re doing and having it periodically checked by a shop that knows what they’re looking at.


At least that name tells you how it's gonna ride...


Those angry eyelids and wrangler owners?


Jesus fuck, I had a Jeep renegade and every other post on the FB group was "where do I get the angry eyes?" Fucking $15 on amazon and you can look like a smooth brain too!




From a quick google, Taco's come with 30.5" tires stock, do they really need a regear for 33's? That doesn't seem like enough of a difference to really need it.


I mean it's about halfway done. Had they boxed out the frame down to the drop bracket, it would be pretty damn strong. How it is now? No way. The cuts on the frame are actually cleaner than I would expect, so someone knew 10% of what they were doing. I would expect some jagged edge cut using an acetylene torch. This looks Sawzall 100%, but Yea, if they broke out the welder and fabbed some plates to box out the crossmember to the drop bracket, I would drive it. Can't see how many other no-nos there are though.


\[Me who knows nothing about cars but wants to look cool in front of the car people\] Psssht. Yeah. What an *idiot*. 👀


\*waves hands towards the picture\* I mean look at what he did with the thing that does the stuff? Who would be that dumb?


Plenty of these on the road. Frame cut is required to clear the driveshaft. Its not the RIGHT was to do it, but I was installing lifts and cutting frames on OBS chevys 20 years ago to install bracket lifts.


i know, that’s what scares me. toyotas don’t exactly have a great reputation for long lasting frames, even when you don’t cut them apart to make your truck look cool.


My buddy runs a Toyota ofroad shop in DFW. He refuses to install these kinds of lifts. They are pretty much for show only, thats for sure. We build our rigs to beat on the trail, even if we mostly crawl the mall...


he’s doing gods work


Mind telling me what shop it is? I need the rear shackles relocated on my Hilux and I'm in Garland.


The Tread Depot. Tell them that 4runnerShow guy sent you. They will know exactly who I am. And hey neighbor. I live in Richardson.


"Look how they massacred my boy..."


Look how fucking terrible those wheels are 🤦🏻‍♂️


straight hotdog water


Fuck don’t you guys have annual registration inspections there? That’s a drastic modification for the purpose of looking cool in the McDonald’s drive thru


not in kentucky, no. if it rolls you can drive it here lmao.


Are you in Louisville? I swear I saw this truck yesterday in a parking lot and commented out loud how dumb that is!!!


i sure am


OMG me, too! Hi Neighbor <3 Wait a minute....I know this sounds crazy...but is that shop in Jtown?


what a small internet


Is it? Please say yes. Is it attached to an upholstery shop? If so...my dad used to own that garage! Used to be (my last name) Automotive!


Mermaid automotive?


Clever girl.


we are not in jtown, no


It's my truck. I'll sell it to ya, tastefully modded and professionally fixed lift kit. 3/4 wheels have curb rash but it's to be expected when crawling in parking lots.


Most southern states are the same thing.


We don’t have safety inspections in CA either. As long as it passes emissions, they don’t care.


Same in Washington except we ended emissions check because they really found issues and when they did usually people got waivers because the repairs were too expensive.


Maryland only has it upon transfer of title. There are some scarey vehicles on the roads. Lots of "classic" 2001 Camrys too. Classic means no emissions test either.


I'm not familiar with this vehicle, what's the issue here?


someone cut out a big chunk of the frame to make room for a prop shaft after lifting the truck.


Why would anyone think that's okay?


common sense is an uncommon virtue


They cut the frame or cross member at least to make room for the driveshaft.


I mean look at the wheels. It’s not like the 4x4 will ever be used. Plus the tires look like the cheapest ones you can find on custom offsets.


Some poor soul will pay $50k for this on the used market because “it’s a tAcOmA”


allow me a brief brag. i am not at all a mechanic...but i am so proud to have figured out what they did wrong!!


we’re so proud of you. good job.


Most Tacoma enthusiasts I know hate the 6-inch lifts for this exact reason. Pure suspension lift or don't bother. My Taco is about an inch higher and its all spring.


i can’t lift my truck. not just because i can’t bring myself to ruin a perfectly good yota, but because all of the bolts on my 95 t100 are completely seized, and i’m 5’6” so i wouldn’t be able to get in without looking like a drunk orangutan. i just put 31.5’s on it and called it good.


Yeah I'm 6'0" and getting in is still a PITA so I don't blame you.


Anytime you see these wheels you can be sure the mods were done poorly


Me: what’s wrong with the… OH SHIT.


Drop-bracket lifts. It's staggering how many of them are in use and on the road.


Wv has a safety inspection but they don't even look at ball joints, tierods, ya know safety shit they just fail ppl if the rocker has a hole bigger that a pencil or your tires are slightly less than half tread