T O P
Archkys

And the only question that worried me, they can't answer it Are we getting a real PvE or is it just some seasonnal "PvE Experience" as they call it now


Edensy

I'm happy to buy a whole PVE Overwatch game. But I am not willing to pay for one or two new missions every other week for who knows how many months (years?). As much as I'm looking forward to PVE, this kind of money milking goes against every fiber of my being.


Dr_StevenScuba

I was fully on board for some live service version of OW-left for dead. I really hope it’s not just a better of version of uprising


whoizz

I don’t think that’s how it’s going to work.


UnfinishedProjects

Cold War Zombies Outbreak mode is the pinnacle of PVE to me, but I don't have much experience in that genre. Any recommendations?


ChrdeMcDnnis

The TRUE pinnacle of PvE, and I *will* be downvoted for this, is TF2’s Mann vs Machine


majkelmm

Dont worry fam we know you are right


ChrdeMcDnnis

Okay okay thank you. I know these two communities have… grievances with each other. Maybe it will improve now that Valve seems to have remembered TF2’s existance


Juice805

Do they? My love for TF2 is what turned into my love for OW.


ChrdeMcDnnis

Unfortunately, yes. When OW was launching, there were a lot of comparisons to TF2, both of them being cartoony class shooters. They arent unjustified either, but I think OW took inspiration from TF2 more than they stole anything from it. I mean, look at Engineer and Torbjorn’s launch kit. Look at Pharah (flying rocket launching soldier) and Soldier (flying rocket launching soldier). Loose connections, but the gaming community isn’t exactly known for it’s understanding of nuance. And it seems that sentiment is alive today. I remember several posts on r/tf2 about how this community was unwilling to participate in #SaveTF2, an event that drew in a lot of other gaming communities. They mostly cited old grudges, but folks rarely let those go. Edit; i personally don’t think OW stole anything. They stole as much from TF2 as Paladins stole from OW. Just similar games doing similar things and taking artistic inspiration from each other.


opinionperson69

There is no PvE in Ba Sing Se.


MetalMermelade

Most likely the 2nd. Pve content is consumed at a astonishing rate, like for example top pve guilds in wow bursting through top content within days. And this is a game with already established pve content, such has lore. Ow lore is barebones at the least! We barely know any villains or their motivations, names, locations, etc! Most lore content is just dropped in our laps when they feel like it Unless their team grew to the size of wow team, I don't reckon they will have enough man power to sustain a normal pve mode. U will get a handful of content at start, and they will prob release some more with major patches/events


GhostMug

\> Pve content is consumed at a astonishing rate, I always think about Bungie when trying to put stuff like this into context. When they would release new expansions and/or raids they would say that it gets played 1000x more in the first hour of release than all of their testing combined. People make reddit posts about how they have "all the essentials" of food and such stacked right next to their chairs/couch/desk and they take a week off work so they won't be disturbed at all and only have to get up to go to the bathroom and then they complain after spending 100 hours in that first week that there's nothing to do. It really is amazing how quickly that content is consumed. I gotta imagine it sucks for a dev to spend years of their lives on something only for somebody to finish it that quickly and then scream at them on twitter "NOW WHAT???". I imagine OW2 will feel like Gears of War games. The PvP will be the main focus, but then the story/PvE stuff gets a few updates here and there and it will only last as long as the dedicated community wants it to.


Dranzell

Thing is, I don't think they need to create a ton of content. They need to create content that is **very replayable**. And I guess to enable party play with modifiers. Which is why everyone around here mentions Left 4 Dead 2.


Archkys

Oh yeah but i'm talking about them releasing temporary PvE content (each season) without any of the skills, level etc they announced (So just like OW1 PvE but a bit better) And yes you are correct they won't release all the PvE content at launch cause that would suck if people finish everything in 3 days then quit, even if it has a "high replayability" as they announced, most people won't bother doing some mission more than twice


Suchti0352

>Oh yeah but i'm talking about them releasing temporary PvE content (each season) without any of the skills, level etc they announced (So just like OW1 PvE but a bit better) I highly doubt that, considering [that a huge part of the hero design ressources](https://www.reddit.com/r/Games/comments/vicyeq/were_the_team_behind_overwatch_2_which_will_be/iddexd2/) went into these talents.


Archkys

Oh, great, because they way they don't talk about PvE and refer to it as an "experience" scared me and i thought they abandonned the whole thing


Blackbirdsnake

I would guess it’s more like the life is strange or telltale games in the way that one part of the story gets out and you need to wait 3 months to get the next chapter but your choices stay the same


1ndianajoe

I believe they will release it in chapters, with each one leaving off on a cliffhanger. If they do too little, there will be backlash. If they release it all, people will blow through it and have nothing left to do.


othniel01

What the fuck the point of making an 'Overwatch 2' if the main reason for its existence (PVE reworked and center stage) isn't there?


MetalMermelade

Well...it's blizzard ain't it? Same people that brought you hearthstone mercenaries and diablo immoral. Is it the first time you hear about a AAA studio fucking around and not delivering on their promises?


Guillermidas

I guess you never played Vermintide games. You can make an extremely challenging and hard pve game (but also with difficulties appropriate for less skillful players) while also being insanely fun to play, and never get boring. Blizzard is just out of ideas. I hope they prove me wrong with OW2 and Diablo4. Still, wont buy anything from them unless with a good discount, they dont deserve our whole money.


MetalMermelade

You can say that for pretty much any pve game, even single player, and your argument falls against it, cause not every pve game has replayability. In Ow in particular this effect will be more noticeable, cause if they choose to dedicate that amount of resources for new content, PvP is going to feel it It's not a question of games being fun, cause 1, it's subjective, and 2, replayability needs to have certain requirements, namely having the same map and characters but still be different every time. Most replayable games offer changes to the formula. Trading card games have a pool of powerful cards/perks that differ from run to run, FPS games usually have different weapons and puzzle games randomise events and boards This pve however, so far has only shown that the only factor is the talent trees, on which every player can pick a different tree. But if my gaming years have taught me anything is that there is always a more efficient path to take, so it will take a couple of days until everyone is running the same talents


sum_nub

It's PvE not PvP, the target audience is casual players who don't necessarily care about using the most meta build. Given the 30+ heroes each with their own skill tree, I'd reckon the game should be very replayable unless they fuck the AI. The above posters comparison to vermintide is quite accurate. I'd expect ow2 to be very similar but even better if executed properly.


Guillermidas

Blizzard has been developing OW PvP for several years already. You really suggesting such a big multinational shouldnt (and i believe it wont) be able to focus on the PvE aspect almost entirely (which is pretty much the selling point btw, unless people are happy buying the same PvP content twice).


JukeDukeMM

Aaron said in the gamespot interview that the plans for PvE haven't changed and its still the story mode and hero missions. But they will just release them seasonally.


Co-opingTowardHatred

I think all that means is the content will roll out over time. Which is to be expected. We should still get the campaign and the Mass Effect 3-style "Hero Missions" we were sold on. And it should be great.


nith_wct

They said there was a campaign. They were pretty clear about that.


I_like_cheese07

I assume the pve will be structured in a similar way to apex but I pray to god it will be executed better. If they release episodic campaigns every season it will be great to have exiting new content regularly. But it’s very important they don’t lock it behind a paywall and allow players to play content from past seasons. Maybe they’ll have battle-pass exclusive challenges for the campaign(complete a mission without taking damage, use a certain hero for the mission) and that will be fine but putting content behind a limited time paywall is scummy.


coronavirusrex69

They just want to release things as they're finished. Not for them, for that sweet sweet continuous revenue stream where they make money while still finishing their game. No, for you. They are doing all of this for you. LMAO. Prior to this last release, I had already called PvE being dead in the water. I was downvoted then, and I'll be downvoted now. $20 says PvE turned out to be *not that fun*. Development issues made progress stagnant, etc. etc. A full campaign is a *whole different beast* than releasing content seasonally. Either way, if it is a whole campaign, it's scummy to release it seasonally to collect more battle pass subscribers. Now we're not just monetizing a multiplayer "live game" via subscription model; no, now you have to subscribe to *your single-player story games*. More and more I am happy they went 5v5 and bastardized their game, bc at least I won't spend a dime on this hellhole of a sequel.


AsexualArowana

I was hoping they'd explain the Battle Pass and how it's going to be monetized. Are we going to be able to earn "credits" via playing? Or will there be a separate battle pass you can buy and work towards that one? Are they going with a traditional battle pass model? ala fortnite?


aHairyWhiteGuy

I think it's safe to assume it will be a traditional battle pass like Fortnite and warzone


FearfulDaredevil

I just hope the battle pass works like fortnite where if you buy it once and compete it, you get enough currency to buy the next one. That way committed players who finish battlepasses don’t have to pour more than $10ish into a game.


aHairyWhiteGuy

Plus it's more incentive to actually buy the battle pass. But then again it also gives you the ability to buy premium skins or whatever as well for free too thus causing you to spend more money to buy the battle pass again.


Temporary-Book8635

You never know, this is a free to play game based off of an existing IP with Activision at the reins... I'm personally not very hopeful


Anu8ius

Just as a quick number for everyone: The last screenshot we saw of the PvE included a pic of the skilltree with ~50 skills PER CHARACTER. If we do the math, 50*34 (all old heroes + soj/JQ), that comes out to over *1700* talents in total. So yeah, that probably took a while to get done… EDIT: im NOT saying this is an excuse for the lack of content. This is just *one* of the endless things that likely slowed down development.


Swordofsatan666

Wow thats a lot of skills per character…. Hopefully that means the PvE is also pretty Meaty and not just their skills


Kymaeraa

I would love a pvp arcade mode where the skill trees are enabled


Bridge-4-

Guarantee there will be tons of dupes, and what really needed time was the enemy AI.


Lexmonmon

I wish I could give you a medal, thanks. Some people really forget that developing a game takes its time. And no matter if it is a big company or not - McDonalds is a big company too, but has anyone ever seen a happy McDonalds employee? :I They actually don't owe us anything and after the whole blizz controversy and rona-time I am happy that they did not abandon OW at all but have been still working on it, they should work on their communication tho but honestly it has become better the last few months.


Tmv655

I was originally really disappointed with the news about 3 heroes, and I still am. BUUUUUT this realization only came to me after reading this post and I can definitely accept it now.


Classic1990

Eh, I would’ve only been disappointed if it was just 3 heroes in general. But 3 heroes followed by more over the coming years is fine and understandable.


ohlongjohnson-longjo

Yeah we get 6 new characters released in a year instead of 3 now, esp since they’ve pretty much made a promise for several years of content


Chipers

Lets not pretend like a majority of those “skills” aren’t the old BS talent tree crap from WoW of “WOAH 3% EXTRA DAMAGE WHEN FLYING AS PHARA AMAZING!!!!!!” The skills trees are still no excuse for the pathetic launch of 3 characters after NOTHING for multiple years


Bhu124

Some of them will be like these but a bunch of them will be brand new abilities, like Mei can transform into a Snowball and roll, Hanzo can shoot a magic arrow that chains between enemies, Tracer can stop time as an ability, Tracer can have chain explosions on her Pulse Bomb. A lot of these have already been shown as well.


Just_A_Simple_Jester

Yea that's what I was thinking, 50 talents for each character but not all of the talents are gonna be ability changing. Prob a lotta fluff like extra dmg here or faster movement speed type fluff


Bhu124

https://www.reddit.com/r/Games/comments/vicyeq/were_the_team_behind_overwatch_2_which_will_be/iddexd2/ Further explanation and insight provided by a different dev. Explaining that the resources went into development of PvE Talent Trees for all heroes which have many new abilities for every hero, along with also developing PvE enemies and their abilities.


Teaandcookies2

Good highlight


RandomAnon07

So basically further confirming it’s because of PvE. The PvE so far has sounded like Archives+. I hope it’s a wicked PvE with rich talent trees they keep talking about, but holy fuck am I skeptical because if the reason there aren’t more heroes is because it turns out they were just building Archives+...


Phoenixtorment

What is ICYMI?


Rinzzler999

in case you missed it, its in case you missed it.


AlphaElectricX

I curled your moustache in


SoDamnGeneric

in case you missed it


wettyguy

in case you missed it


jeffy06

in case you missed it


AsexualArowana

In case you missed it.


mehmmeh

ICYMI it's "in case you missed it."


aHairyWhiteGuy

in case you missed it


Dearsmike

For me the problem isn't there are only 3 new heroes. The problem is the players have talked about how the game *needs* more support heroes, the devs have talked for years how the game *needs* more support heroes, the devs have said that they are constantly working on support heroes yet they have released so few, reworked one of them into a DPS, completely changed a heroes entire kit from support to dps because of their ultimate (that's been nerfed over and over) and consistently give the other roles interesting support abilities. We get that there are 2 supports in playtesting, the problem is even if those supports were released one after another it puts the roster to **17dps**, 10 tanks and 10 supports.


xXConDaGXx

Blizzard: Why do people only want to play DPS, it’s causing issues with queue time Meanwhile Blizzard: *Releases another DPS, nerfs tanks and supports, randomly buffs another DPS*


chapinscott32

*cries in another cass buff*


Thor-Odinson69

They could delete the 3/4 dps heroes and people will still favor them. People always preferred offensive roles. It’s not really an easy issue to fix


Edensy

*And* the next hero after these 3 should be another tank. And tank is played by one person, while support pool is shared by two. Not to mention, support in OW2 beta really wasn't that fun to play. Fully subjective, but tanks and dps felt great, while support felt extremely unimpactful and frustrating.


Mandeville_MR

I felt plenty impactful, but it was draining af. Can't see myself playing more than two or three matches at a time before switching to dps, and I am a hardcore support main.


Dearsmike

I'm hoping that the first beta was focused on making sure the dps and Tank changes were fun for the players and Support fun will get the changes of the next one. I would rather they give each role the focus and collect correct feedback than try to do it all in every beta. Considering the support changes that got added nearing the end of the beta I'm pretty optimistic.


Edensy

Yea, I'm also keeping an open mind. I love being support too much to switch to a full on tank player.


Plenty-Appointment40

Originally the dps role was split between offenders and defence, that’s why there is so many in this role now that it’s combined - as per AMA.


BlazeDrag

yeah it was honestly one of their biggest mistakes with Overwatch's launch. They were under the mistaken impression that people would actually play mostly defense heroes on defense and vice versa for offense. But obviously people like Junkrat are perfectly fine on Offense and basically all the offense heroes work perfectly fine on defense, so as a result they ended up making way too many DPS heroes. It also kinda completely ignores symmetrical game modes like king of the hill and now the new Push mode they created.


ElegantHope

I always stood by 'defensive' heroes mean they were really good at area of denial. Torb, Widow, Junkrat, Mei. They all made going into an area that hero controlled scary. It made them favorable for defense, but it also made them just as good for attack.


Plenty-Appointment40

Wait a minute, so all the years of trauma of people telling me not to pick torb on offence, we’re unwarranted??


bloodhawk713

Not entirely. You need to be much more dynamic and mobile while playing offense and Torbjorn couldn't move his turret around quite as liberally back then and thus got punished a lot more having his turret in a bad position.


Xaron713

I'd argue you could move the turret easier back then because it didn't have a cooldown on destruction.


bloodhawk713

You also couldn't throw it (it had a targeting interface instead that only allowed him to place it in his immediate proximity), and you needed to sit there and smack it for several seconds with his hammer to upgrade it to level 2, during which time he couldn't do anything else.


Xaron713

Yeah but the level 2 had more health and damage, and even the level one could be spammed for a good distraction effect. And you could move the turret for free if the position wasn't useful anymore


shadowX015

I mean they were being dicks but launch Torb was legit probably the most map dependent hero in the game by a huge margin.


yeshellomyfriends

honestly not really. his new E fucks, but before that it was generally pretty annoying playing with attack torb


cynerji

I think so too, dps/def/utility/support was honestly such a good way to split everyone up and help players pick, especially newer ones.


Debug200

Right but that combining happened years ago, and they've not done _anything_ to try and even out the roster count. If anything, they've still given more attention to DPS than the other two. Echo was gonna be a support (even her lore heavily implies support) and then was released as DPS (and was the last hero in OW1). Symmetra got changed _from_ support _to_ DPS. First hero of OW2? DPS.


Dearsmike

That also had literally no impact on the actual game, which is what they said when they got rid of the roles. Also Supports have only got a few more heroes than offense and defence had on the games release so that's not that good of an argument.


Apexe

There were 0 new defense heroes added before they made the change to combine them in Summer 2018.


Dearsmike

And yet still had more than the entire support roster at the time.


iAnhur

I want new support heroes but I don't necessarily want 17 support heroes just because there are 17 dps heroes. Fact of the matter is support heroes are far more versatile than dps heroes. If you only play ana bap mercy brig or even Moira (Lucio is a bit underpowered imo and zen requires peel from his team so those are pretty fair to use as counter arguments) you'll probably have no issues. If you only play Cassidy, soldier Ashe you'll probably have no issues. If you play phara however? Symmetra? You might start running into problems. I'm honestly ok with 2-3 new support heroes so I don't have to play Baptiste and ana every game though


Dearsmike

I just think there are very few downsides to adding more variety to the support role. The reason adding supports was such a problem in OW1 was because the devs added supports to fix other problems in the game. Brig was added to deal with tracer/dive, Bap was added to deal with the insane burst damage etc. With OW2 they have a chance to stop chasing problems with support heroes. It's also not really fair to compare three support heroes that have drastically different playstyles to three dps that deliberately share playstyles. It'll be fairer to compare those supports to Ashe, Genji and Pharah. DPS has so much more flexibility in playstyles just by the fact there are 17 heroes.


CrabSully

The fact that they released another DPS hero is absurd, really. People want the new content, and will okay that new content. If you don't release new Supports, then people aren't flooding to that queue. They're going to have the same problem with support queue as they did the tank queue.


quantumlocke

It’s not absurd at all. With a big event release like this, they very reasonably want there to be something new for everyone.


Zeke-Freek

3 of the next 6 heroes are literally supports according to Aaron. 2 of them are tanks, literally only Sojourn is a new damage hero for OW2 at this point. The literal earliest we're getting another damage hero is is in battlepass season #8 and that's assuming it isn't another tank.


Fyrefawx

The reality is that the majority of people want to play dps. It’s an FPS game after all. The fact that we are getting 2 more tanks and a support this year is a win.


Riverpaw

And Aaron announced that of the next 3 heroes after the Dec 6th tank, 2/3 of them are supports. So 3 supports in the pipeline currently.


Jensonater

Yeah! Mauga/King Howl/Sanjay is nearly finished and the then *2* of the 3 characters after him are both Supports, that sounds like a major W to me!


Riverpaw

Hoping for Mauga because I want the heavy artillery gun noises to be playable *mmmmMMMMM brrrrrrrrrrrrrrr* *mmmmMMMMM brrrrrrrrrrrrrrr*


computertanker

They’ve touched on how they’re aware of the Damage to other role volume, and stated they are seeking to even it out, but can’t just ignore the damage role entirely for the next 14 heroes. They want to throw in a new Damage hero every so often. We’re seeing that with OW2 launching with one brand new hero for each role (not counting rebalances like Doomfist going Tank) and we know that we’re getting a yet unnamed support, tank, and according to this post the next hero after the S2 tank will be support: theyre aware and trying, they just don’t want to leave a role out to dry.


Dearsmike

The problem is they said exactly the same in 2018. Then they reworked a support into dps, released 1 support, 1 tank and 2 more dps (ashe and echo). That's why I have doubts about them even attempting to balance out the roles.


Akademik-L

Of course it’s complete bullshit the amount of dps vs the rest and 100% the game needs more supports and people have been very vocal about it. But. There are still a bigger lack of people playing tank then support, queuing flex you almost always end up playing tank and most of all now where the tank role is completely changed, adding some to the pool makes sense. In this AMA they said that it’s going to be 2 or 3 supports coming after the next tank after junker queen, witch is great! But in the spirit of the change and getting people more into tanks now that it’s way more intimidating then it has been, seems like the right choice for me


OneGuyJeff

To be fair, the 17 dps are so far ahead because they used to be split into offense and defense


MyAimSucc

As a Destiny player I get the content flow they are going for, however, I hope the PvE is substantial enough to hold over multiple month seasons. Leveling up each skill tree is “content” but doing that in the same missions/maps over and over again is going to be boring imo. I guess that’s where the PvP comes in? When you’re bored of the grind you hop on PvP, but in my case i might just play another game instead. I’m on the slightly negative side, but I’ll give it a chance before I absolutely shit on the game.


aaronwe

Right??? As a fellow destiny player all I'm reading here is more "were listening. We're gonna do better, sorry that CoO was dogshit we got your money kthnxbye!"


Sierra_Fox

Back in 2019 it was reported that there were at least 4 heroes being developed *in addition to* Echo and Sojourn for the OW2 release. That we've waited all this time and half of what was teased at release isn't anywhere close to ready is really disappointing. https://www.dexerto.com/overwatch/overwatch-2-reportedly-four-unannounced-heroes-1219632/


nazurinn13

I'd rather have that than half-baked heroes. Some concepts back then might not have worked as intended, and oh well, there was controversy. I'm just happy Overwatch can live on and I've enjoyed every single minute of new content we have received.


CourtSenior5085

"We're over three times the size we were at launch" And yet you still haven't filled the lead positions that have been open on the careers page for over 2 years! At least they *finally* filled the lead storyboard artist position. That one had to be bugging me the most, because they were asking for 5+ years in that position in a AAA company and just left it there for 2 years.


F_r_a_k

“You only added 3/4 heroes after a 4/5 years hiatus?” “We split our team…” “…” “We had these cool ideas…” “…” “We made new sound effects” “…” “We…made it 5vs5…” “Ok, so at least you made PvE…” “…” “You gotta be shitting me right now-“


Macinzon

> This is also the reason we’re excited to go F2P and release content on a seasonal basis - namely to release content when it’s finished rather than holding it to put into a box. That seems BS for me. You don’t need to be F2P with a seasonal battlepass just to stop you from holding in content.


plssteppy

"We can only release our new content once you've paid us a monthly 'protection' fee, otherwise it goes in the box."


BurqueBirdo

“Security”


culinarydream7224

Almost as if we live in a capitalist society or something....


culinarydream7224

If frequent content drops is what you want, this is how you fund it. Ya'll were unsatisfied with the amount of content you got with the free lootbox model, so they're upping their game


KaiserPan

I think it was a bad choosing of words from their side. They also said that they have many heroes in the works but not many are finished. My guess is that the "box" they talk about is filled with unfinished heroes and it would make sense that they need the battlepass monetization to justify that they invest time and money to finish these boxed heroes.


EddieXXI

I swear I remeber seeing that there would be 5 new heroes at launch. It's just clear that the game entered development hell + pandemic. Focused was shifted to PvE and then back to PvP with battle pass etc when they saw how much money games like Apex make. Really just trying to limit expectations here.


defearl

It's just that a lot of streamers/influencers were throwing that number around (5 new heroes), it became a wishful thinking for the whole community. "They must know something we don't! They're teasing it on purpose!" kind of thing.


Dsingis

I can't be the only one who rolls their eyes back into their brain everytime I hear any social media person or corporate speaker say the word: "exciting". Such an overused buzzword. I wish people would just stop using corporate speak, like we're some kind of easily impressionable children. But regarding the actual content of this reply: I am happy to hear that 2 of the next 3 heroes are supports. We definitely need some more of these. Well at least I do. It wasn' really a big deal for me that we get 3 heroes at launch. I mean Overwatch 2 always just felt like a falsely marketed update to Overwatch. So I didn't really expected any more. So in short: I am content with it and happy about the supports.


aaronwe

They used excited so much in that ama. Gave me major anthem vibes. They have no faith in what they're doing, they know that it's shit/they know it's not enough so they're hoping to create enough bravado and community goodwill that it'll get smoothed over on release. (That's a lot of hyperbole honestly but it's what I was feeling reading the ama answers) As someone whose main game is a live service game for the last 7 years...this is not sounding good.


skorpian1029

Bruh the fact that they don’t have some characters already done is nuts, 3 years 3 characters, the idea that they are going to be able to release new maps every other season and new characters every other season along with shit to sell in the store and new battle passes is nuts. I don’t believe there’s anyway they will keep that up.


PacJeans

I remember around the time echo was released they said they had the most heros they've ever had in development at 6. So it's really disappointing for me waiting two years and expecting the game to launch with something lime 6 heroes and we get half of a bare minimum prediction.


Slothnazi

I remember the disappointment of the community when echo was revealed as DPS. Her ult and flying would have been a cool addition to the support lineup.


Euphoricas

What’s funny is I remember hearing OW2 woukd release with 5-6 heroes and a majority being tanks & supports so they’ve been worked on for so long, like how can a single character take 3 years lol


Jakeremix

Bobby Kotick


hiroxruko

6 heroes were made up but I doubt they went further than on the blackboard as pve was the main focus at the time. PvP was the after thought but once they switch over to pvp, those 6 heroes started to move out of first page of creating a hero(art), and 3 of them were nearly done for the release of early access. Heck the other 3 heroes are in the play testing stage as we speak. If the game was released next year, we would had 6 heroes at launch, 3 support, 2 tanks and 1 dps.


ltsochev

Guild Wars 2 did bi-weekly updates for awhile. All done with good story, narration, voice acting, etc. And ArenaNET compared to Blizzard is like an indy developer. All I'm saying is ... it's not impossible if they manage their resources right.


Nagnu

If you're referring to Living Story season 1... it completely burned the devs out and cause some serious issues. It is why the current content release cycle is measured in months and not weeks. Still, Guild Wars 2 is a great game and only getting better. Hopefully Overwatch 2 can say the same but at this point Blizzard has to prove it.


Edensy

Hats off to ArenaNET, GW2 living story was amazing and they pulled it off so well. Even now 10 years later, GW2 is still loads of fun to play. Whatever Blizzard was (not) doing all these years, I'm willing to bet it wasn't because of a lack of resources. More like bad planning / management.


skorpian1029

They could do it, multiple companies do it alright but I don’t think I trust blizzard to do it at this point


Guardianpigeon

>it's not impossible if they manage their resources right. Unfortunately probably not possible currently. As ex devs have said, Kotick was directly interfering with the Overwatch team for years and was just as responsible for the delays. You're not going to get proper management here until the executives are gone about a year from now.


Pandabear71

I honestly don’t really doubt that they’ll deliver. Yeah they’ve done fuck all for rhe past 3 years. At least from out PoV. The beta felt like a project they’ve only started this year, but so far they’ve really turned the page and have delivered with the beta and communication. Perhaps its new management or something, i dont know, but it feels different if wr just pretend those years dont exists.


SwishDota

The entire thing reeks of bullshit, especially considering they note that the staff working on the game has grown 3x what it was at launch. Even if they did a 66% split to PVE that still means the amount of people working on the PVE side would be roughly equal to what it was at the games launch. They're really gonna sit here and say that in the last 3 years a team that's 3x bigger than the launch team was only able to muster up 3 new heroes? What happened to the 6 heroes they were talking about that were in the works when Echo was announced? And if they really are diverting the majority of their workforce to PVE, then this PVE mode they're coming out with better be absolutely fucking amazing. Given their track record and the existing PVE I wouldn't hold my breath.


HamiltonDial

Yea the answer just makes the whole thing even worse. Like they are not withholding any means that those 3 were being worked on for the past 3 years…


Zeke-Freek

They literally explained in the AMA that they were focusing on PvE most of the past few years and that making so many talents for the PvE trees was far more labor intensive than making new heroes. Now they've shifted back to new heroes again. The past few years are not indicative of their ability to support the PvP game because they literally weren't trying to do that.


Different-Sugar-6436

You’re saying A. “What have they been doing for 3 years?” And B. “I don’t believe they have any content to keep up with their release schedule.” My friend, i have some good news. They’ve been using those 3 years to make content. They were initially going to drop it all when it was done, but have changed their approach. Now we’re getting 3 heroes an a handful of new maps on launch. Then they’re going to be releasing a new hero and a new map every 18 weeks… if you know how long hero and map development takes, you’ll know they haven’t been doing nothing. They have a LOT of things they’re working on right now.


skorpian1029

I’m saying I don’t think they will be able to keep up that schedule if they don’t have hero’s already near ready which they said they don’t


BurqueBirdo

They either have a vault or they don’t. What is happening?!?


Different-Sugar-6436

“Working on 6” doesn’t mean “6 are ready for release.” They need a pipeline like that to have consistent content coming out when they do start releasing more content.


Ibrokemymicrowave

I don’t mean to be pessimistic, and probably will be downvoted for this, but I’m becoming less and less excited for Overwatch 2 the more and more news I get for the game. Not a huge fan of F2P games, cause most of them feel incomplete and have that “Games As A Service” model. I don’t think the new currency they’ll be using is earnable in game since it’s going F2P. Not a fan of Battle Passes either.


BraveLeon

I’ll believe it when I see it


Royal_Rabbit_Gaming

Lot of words to say we have no idea how to make content.


CannibalRed

For disabled players interested in and answer to the TOP question that wasn't answered. I spoke to a OW team member a year ago about color settings like OWL gets. They were polite and receptive. I also sent examples of disability features within in industry that would benefit the visually and hearing impaired. I don't have time to game much anymore so I am comfortable showing you the quotes response. I hope it doesn't break any breach of trust as I very much respect the OW team. It's not much but here you go. "Thank you so much for sending all of this detailed feedback. We really appreciate all of this information. I’ve sent this along to a number of our designers and engineers!" "We want to make sure that Overwatch is a fun game for everyone to play, so accessibility is super important to us. Thanks so much again for sharing your clip and raising awareness. Feel free to reach out any time!" The same info was also shown to them by a kind OW YouTuber who shall remain unnamed. So I can't promise we'll get what we want, but at least now everyone can know the team is aware of our struggle. And yes I'm that legally blind player from the Stylosa video (not the same YT I previously mentioned) a few years ago. [link to that video](https://youtu.be/ze1tA2TWfec)


TR-KnightForEyes

I personally think ow2 PvE is not going to be like... Titanfall 2, L4D2 or something... Im thinking they mostly gonna use battlepass (Tancent daddy and its Battlepasses) and earn money like that... I dont think ow2 going to be awesome as ow1. This is my personal thoughts... Feel free to comment


jrjreeves

I think that considering it's been 26 months since Echo was released and they're only going to have three new characters at launch a fourth shortly after is poor if you ask me. If you include the fourth hero it's one for every 7 months.


SWAGB0T

26 months and I still suck ass with echo


Cagedwar

The even bigger deal is that this is “overwatch 2” with almost the exact same roster. Imagine if smash bros released melee and there was only 3 new characters.


jrjreeves

I think one of the issues is that it's called Overwatch 2 and Blizz themselves have referred to it as a sequel. It's clear to me at this stage that it's more of an expansion pack and barely one at that. Overwatch has always been about the heroes first, maps second, story third. How they can call it a sequel based on this is very baffling. It needs 8 heroes at a minimum and 12 maps at launch. They'd be best stating that they've brought launch forward as initially was going to be late 2023


projectmars

It's always been an expansion pack that they had billed as a sequel even back when Jeff was announcing it. Thank people like Kotick for that whole confusing mess.


Important_Seaweed451

I’m slightly disappointed in the lack of new characters too, but the only thing I can think of is how each new character released at the same time exponentially increases balancing issues. Even if they released, say, the three that they have now, all at once, I could see that being potentially problematic. I’m pretty excited about everything in OW2, but I definitely understand people’s frustration.


Rinzzler999

not to make comparisons but.... riot manages to release 2-3 characters a year with varying effects on their game's balance and with a comparable sized team as blizzard's overwatch team.


bluewaveassociation

I hope to God its all worth it because its becoming apparent more and more everyday that they were doing fuck all for multiple years.


PredictableVigilante

I don't think it's fair for an outsider of the company to make claims like this. The devs who work for OW have probably been working their asses off, but management has probably just been steering them in the wrong direction (we know this because they were primarily focused on PvE and have now shifted primarily to PvP). To say they've been doing fuck all is just plain stupid and ignorant.


shutupdavid0010

3 years and basically nothing to show for their work..? Most companies would be firing at least 30% of that group, perhaps more. There are probably 10 people doing the work and the rest have been coasting.


TacoBeefBoy

3X the size of team from launch and only 3 hero’s


Rinzzler999

someone tldr the answer plz, but guy isn't wrong to ask that as before when they were working on overwatch they were releasing 2-3 hero's a year but we only get 3 new ones in 3 years? its very very slow.


darkerhntr

tbh they should keep adding support heroes to equal dps heroes


NigglingChigger

If they poured their heart and soul into a kit like Symmetra then shit, try putting something else into new heroes


Zymboni

They really said “we understand that we have had a 3 year content delay. You see we had the delay because we don’t have content prepared because we don’t want TOO much content prepared because then that content would be stored and delayed…so that is our decision on why we don’t have the content.”


charliebcbc

Just irritates me when I read anything that tries to justify this ‘free to play’ bullshit with any spin other than the truth which is they’re being desperate for revenue…. On an on-going basis.


skratchx

Would you rather pay $90 up front? Because that's what $60 from 2004 is worth now. The reality is that people don't want to pay that much out of the gate. That's not to say f2p is "good", but there's nothing inherently evil about a company trying to make money from their game.


charliebcbc

Never would I have found myself wanting to pay for something and not want it free. I’ve been playing Ow since the week of launch and paid £45. As I said, a business needs to make money but don’t pretend and try to justify this bullshit any other way, it’s taking loyal fans for a fucking ride. I don’t even know what a fucking battle pass is but I don’t want one, I want to play the full (‘premium’) game without renting it. 7 years loyal to this game and I’m rewarded by being forced to watch a different game as OWL.


plagues138

Paid "pvp only" games don't work anymore. They die quick deaths. There's so many f2p games out there now, and they are arguably the biggest games out. You don't stand a chance vs them. Add to that all the shit blizzard and OW have been getting the last few years. Even asking 40$ wouldn't work. And even then it would need MTs to keep making money and go on. WZ was making activision blizz over 5 million a day at one point....


charliebcbc

I’ve had this debate before and there’s an abundance of games that aren’t insecure in their ability to make a game with a decent amount of longevity.


plagues138

Outside of yearly cod, what AAA "pvp only" game with a price tag has survived? I'm not talking indie games that keep a constant 5-10k players on steam, because 5-10k is peanuts for a AAA game.


shutupdavid0010

We are literally in the subreddit for one such game


Silent189

This is like an angry old man shouting at the clouds. A battle pass means they develop new content for the pass, on the expectation of revenue created by the pass. If there is no pass, then the content is never made. Content isn't siphoned away from you, it would just never have been made. This is like buying d2, and expecting d2 lod to be added as a free updated. No. If d2 lod wasn't a paid expansion it would never have been made. A battle pass is just a mini expansion. Instead of releasing 1 year of content for 40 pounds, you release 3months of content for 10 pounds 4 times a year. This also gives you much better metrics on game health and popularity of changes etc. So you can adjust and increase or decrease team sizes etc without waiting in a year long or two year long expansion gamble to see if people come back or buy in. Also, pointing out you paid 45 for 7 years only shows how your ideal is untenable.


charliebcbc

Yeah ok so I’m right, they want to drip feed content they haven’t made yet and that’s their justification for charging rent to play the game. It’s not untenable. I think you’re being naive to Blizzards profitability but the shareholders are 100% the priority and not the loyal fan base. It leaves a sour taste in my mouth and I’m trying to resist for as long as I can out of principle. If you can’t understand nor respect that at all, that’s fine, none of this matters.


Silent189

> Yeah ok so I’m right, they want to drip feed content they haven’t made yet and that’s their justification for charging rent to play the game. Wtf do you think an expansion is? It's a "drip" of content that they charge for. A battle pass is just a small expansion. > I think you’re being naive to Blizzards profitability but the shareholders are 100% the priority and not the loyal fan base. OW makes blizzard less than 10% of it's profit. Likely less now that D:I is going to be in the picture. LMK who is naive if you think the current model works. > If you can’t understand nor respect that at all, that’s fine, none of this matters. I can understand your perspective perfectly, and I can respect that you are standing on your ground on it, but I think you are extremely poorly understanding the difference between mini expansions (BP) and large expansions and how it's literally just the same thing but with a smaller time period between them. Probably because you have a low understanding of the business side where it's FAR more beneficial to have a constant revenue steam with small and constant revenue spikes vs 1-2 year luls and gambles.


nic1010

If you want a healthy player base with a thriving community streaming it, in most cases you need to make the barrier to entry as little as possible. Free to play does this perfectly. There is nothing to regret when you have nothing to lose trying a new game. If you pay full price for a game and don't end up liking it you'll be out the price you paid. If the game is free you're just out the time you put into trying it. People are much more willing to try free games and because of this Overwatch will be able to bring in new players more consistently. A game with a strong streaming community basically acts as free marketing for the game. Say a streamer you typically watch starts playing Overwatch and you want to get into the game as well because of them. You're not going to hesitate downloading the game because that is all you have to do to try it. Streamers trying a new free game generally means their followers will also try that game. Most of the top performing multiplayer games on Twitch, or in general are Free to play with either a Battle pass or some similar system. If you want a live service multiplayer game with a consistent player base you pretty much have to make the game free to play since that is what people expect.


charliebcbc

You’re acting like OW doesn’t have a healthy player base and completely fail to understand how making it free to let all the common loot in might not appeal to everyone. Playing and finding games solely because of watching streamers is pathetic. Whilst it’s the key to some games success, Blizzard aren’t novices. Free / throwaway games aren’t what I’m interested in. You’ve given really poor justification for them implementing this business model imo.


DoctorJordi_

It thought they said that with OW2 launch they were supposed to drop 6 new heroes


PredictableVigilante

When did they say that?


DoctorJordi_

I don’t know, I just remember hearing 6 heroes somewhere. Maybe for another thing idk


Geoffron

They said they had 6 heroes in development. I can't remember if Echo was one of the 6, but clearly some were cut, or Blizzard has a very loose definition of the word "development".


LordVaderVader

If Blizzard hired more people to make the sequel and made more teams etc. maybe we wouldn't have the content hiatus over these years, and then now 3 heroes at the beginning... It's all Blizzard's organizational and budgetary failure.


melikeconanog

I have a feeling iverwatch 2 is gonna be dogshit.


LinCreates

I think what most of you are failing to realize when Overwatch was originally supposed to be Titan they started development in 2007. They transferred over most the designs and concept when it was switched to Overwatch. But Overwatch wasn’t released until 2016. Overwatch 2 was announced in 2019. 9 years for 21 characters and 12 maps is around 2 characters and just over one map per year. For Overwatch 2 they have the reworks plus the new characters. As well as the new maps and game modes. As an animation major trying to perfect these kinds of things isn’t a walk in the park. One character could take years itself. If you only play games you can’t fully understand how much work goes into them. Then on top of that they remodeled almost all the characters and relight the maps and stuff. I know it’s still upsetting to a lot of you but don’t compare it to other games. Different styles take different amounts of time to make. As well as trying to make original heroes and abilities then what’s in other games is extremely hard now with all the games in the same genre. It’s not an excuse but go easy on them. If you haven’t tried making your own game or even characters don’t get too hasty and think it’s so easy cause it’s not.


CheetahRound8282

Every one wants more characters but then they would be the fist to call out a new one for not being polished enough .


LinCreates

Literally! Or call them out for being too much like another character either already in Overwatch or another game


CheetahRound8282

Bingo ! Whatever , blizzard has it handled


LinCreates

Ya I’m sure they do! As a support main I’m quite excited!


SweetnessBaby

I just think that reply is more of the same bs they've been saying. "We have so much passion for the game blah blah blah we have big hopes and dreams blah blah this is our vision blah blah blah". Launch day is the final moment to bring people back to ow and put their money where their mouth is. No amount of words will mean anything to me.


Grandthundercross

What complete bullshit


GrahamTheRabbit

Sorry not sorry I can't and won't believe anything they say when they talk about goodwill and wanting to put food on the plate as soon as it's cooked 3 years of nothing 3 years of nothing And now in october, some 3 months from now, there will be a couple reworks, a couple heroes, a couple maps, game mode. Minus all the stuff getting deleted. But we are so exited to deliver more stuff asap. And we have heroes 4 & 5 almost done. 3 years of no content.


superfly_guy81

Sounds like samito and your overwatch was right on the money as to wtf is going on with this game


bokunotraplord

I’ve never figured out why people obsess over constant hero additions. The last thing I want is for OW to turn into League, absolutely not trying to keep up with 123 characters.


Cagedwar

We are a long way from that. We are at, 30ish?


plssteppy

"We also want new heroes, but it's *hard.* We spent our time on PVE instead, that way we could ship the game faster. Ignore that it's been 3 years of stagnation, we're trying *really* hard you guys!"


BurqueBirdo

Lol while not releasing PVE at launch…the lies are just circling one another


TheCupOfBrew

It's not really lying though they restructured their strategy with ow2 prioritizing pvp, instead of waiting to drop it all as one product .


BurqueBirdo

Lemme just…. “Development of Overwatch 2 was initially split between PVE and PvP…” “As we continued to iterate…PVE…it meant that the schedule for PVP content and features went longer.” So they split the teams, and also working on PVE as split teams prevented any PvP to be released?!? This was a bunch of double speak that says literally nothing. Just admit they dropped the ball because of internal issues and Covid and we will all forgive them. Keep giving us this corporate nonspeak, and we will all learn to distrust them.


hiroxruko

I see it " we split between work on pve and PvP and as pve took longer to do, PvP was getting put on the backburner"


angiezieglerstye

I fucking hate gamers. We get a perfectly eloquent and in depth answer to a question and people are exclusively bitching about other things. Go play something different if you're gonna be salty as fuck


IsThisMeta

fucken amen


Prof_Awesome_GER

Seems like I am kinda alone with the opinion that heroes are not that important. I rather have new maps.


EddieXXI

I kinda agree except we desparately need more supports.


Worldly-Fox7605

People really must think coming up with heroes is just easy work. A good portion of people are already complaining about sojourne being generic.


asianorange

She kinda is.


kracken0406

People aren’t actually complaining about three whole new heroes, 2 complete reworks, and many more almost full, right?


Akkadir-

Yes we are. 3 years. 3 years of nothing leading to a beta that pretty much disappointed everyone.


kracken0406

DISAPPOINTED EVERYONE? You dreaming boy most people loved it


hiroxruko

Yup. Some are even saying we should had gotten 10 or more new heroes for release. Some of the player base are entitled or just plain stupid


kracken0406

Agreeeeee, like they are so spoiled by how old Overwatch used to release content that they can’t accept its now about average


Play-Mation

When compared to average, they are slacking. Why do you continue to lie when proven wrong lmao


DMPark

I honestly don't want them dumping like a dozen heroes at once into OW/OW2 even if they do have them ready. The game gets imba enough as it is almost time they add a new hero - give the whole thing time to rebalance before sticking another Brig into the mix.


Connzept

"Pour our heart into everyone." You literally just made black female S76 and a crossfitter in a clubbing outfit.


BEWMarth

Really liked the reply at the end! You can barely see it but if you read it, basically confirms that 2 out of the next 3 heroes after Mauga will be supports! Hell yeah.


savorysteaks

Lol what a bunch of horse shit. I get that making games is difficult but let’s be real, they didn’t make content because development probably was a huge mess. It’s not unreasonable to expect the developers to develop more than 3 characters in that timeframe. I’d honestly be far more okay with this if they were just more honest about the process of how the game was developed.


SamaluTheSwan

😂😂😂😂didnt even answer the question. Fucking useless ama and shitty ass company.