Help make SquaredCircle safer and more inclusive by using the report button to flag posts and comments for moderator review. If you need to contact a moderator, [you can message us here](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/SquaredCircle) We are Looking for new Moderators! Please see [this announcement for more info](https://www.reddit.com/r/SquaredCircle/comments/vqjvze/were_looking_for_new_moderators_learn_how_to/) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/SquaredCircle) if you have any questions or concerns.*


For as much as Vince tried to distance himself from the wrestling business, he’s actually the perfect embodiment of the wrestling business.


Turns out the man who tried to get wrestling away from it's carny roots, is the biggest carny of them all.


He never really did try to get wrestling away from its carny roots though right? He just wanted to be the only carny in the game, which did for a while, or at least is the biggest carny


Cornette has said in shoots Vince hates wrestling and its southern roots, which is why he brought in non-wrestling minded people like Kevin Dunn or Nick Khan, and tried to distance the brand from it and even the terminology wrestlers and commentary use. Vince was the big reason it went from being simulated combat to entertainment and theatrics, and of course all their attempts to do movies, music, etc. to get outside the wrestling umbrella.


Vince doesn't hate wrasslin' so much as he thinks it has a low ceiling as a business, which is probably fair.


He literally made it a billion dollar company though. Even as a multimillion dollar company that’s still not a low ceiling.


A comparatively-low ceiling. He may think that the reason the WWE is a billion-dollar company instead of a multimillion-dollar company is because they lean into sports entertainment and marketing and branding instead of classic wrasslin'.


Yeah but he wants it to be worth $5B like an nfl franchise would sell for


Idk about him being the reason it went from “simulated combat” to theatrics I’d say that was more of the evolution of wrestling as a whole places like pwg (which I love) has far more theatrical unrealistic matches the Indy’s made wrestling a highspot fest and took away realism more than the wwe did


>Vince hates wrestling But he loves sports entertainment


Mere speculation but considering everything that's been said...Dudes hatred for wrestling provably somewhat stems from some major daddy issues


Didn’t Vince also put out an edict a few years ago internally for all employees to only refer to the company orally or in print as “WWE” and never the full name “World Wrestling Entertainment”, because he didn’t want the “wrestling” word used?


He also hates that his own background was a trailer park in the south. He wants people to think he's a yankee Connecticut billionaire, but the truth is he's just a good ol' boy from North Carolina who grew up in wrasslin' country. He despises that which reminds him of what he despises in himself.


Sports Entertainment. He hates the term wrestling anything traditional. He’s done everything he could to try separating what he does from everyone else.


When Ted Turner bought WCW he called Vince and said “hey, I’m in the wrasslin’ business!” Vince said, “that’s great, Ted. I’m in the *entertainment* business.” See also the phrase “sports entertainment” and how often you’ve heard the word “wrestling” on air in the past ten years.




That’s why he hates it. He hates wrestling, he hates the south, he hates weak people. Why? Because he’s a carny redneck that was abused.


>That’s why he hates it. He hates wrestling, he hates the south, he hates weak people. Why? Because he’s a carny redneck that was abused. Which is pretty fucked up in a sad/tragic kind of way. I mean, it in no way excuses any of the horrible shit he's done, but it's not really any surprise that he ended up with a bit of a skewed view of things considering his childhood.


He's a self hating southern hick.


Never about not being carny, just not being wrasslin


“one often finds his destiny on the road he takes to avoid it” - Kung Fu Panda - - Cody Rhodes


- Michael Scott




Always has been


You have become the very thing you swore to destroy


If anything makes him go, it'll be advertisers not wanting to do business with WWE until he resigns and leaves.


This is correct. WWE is still doing perfectly fine, if not above expectation at the moment. Financials are good and based on MITB numbers are actually heading in a positive direction. WWE has already made over a billion dollars this year. Until there is actual financial pressure to change they don't actually need to change at all. SRS isn't looking at this from a business standpoint, which is the primary thing everyone involved in the decision cares about.


Over a billion in revenue*, half a billion in profit in the past year. Changes nothing about what you said, but still


That is a really good profit margin.


Turns out when you are able to falsely classify your employees ss independent contractors and get out of paying them travel, medical, dental, and expenses you save a lot of money


Also the athlete pay is proportionally lower than every professional sports league save for UFC (and that one is a maybe)


The real question is will the WWE fans still support and buy things? I think so as they’re loyal mfers


They will. Most of them won't even hear about this scandal.


Considering my uncle still has one of those gigantic plasma TVs from the early 2000’s and watches WWE religiously I can see it


Like have you seen the reactions from the crowds when he appears since the allegations happened? Tons of people doing bowing at him like if nothing happened


They won't all go - but they don't have to. A percent here. A half-percent there. A big city sells less than it did last year. It isn't about hard numbers - it's about trends.


Only reddit and twitter folks in their bubble care about this in the first place. So a very small minority. The average person doesnt know, doesnt care or knows and thinks vince did nothing wrong. Thats the reality.


If that were true, it wouldn't twice have been headline news in the Wall Street Journal. It might not seem big at the moment, but it's also a Friday. If the board, for example, threatens to resign en masse unless Vince leaves, that would be a nightmare scenario that would cause those media partners to reconsider their business. Legally, Vince having so much voting stock would bolster a decision to suspend contracts, because I'm sure there's morals clauses in these things.


"The average person" isn't watching the product or going to the shows right now. Pretty much everyone watching/attending wrestling shows will have seen something about this by now, especially considering it's in popular news organizations and all over Twitter/Facebook.


That's why Dan Snyder changed the name of his team from the Redskins to the Washington Football Team, and then to the Commanders. Financial pressure is the catalyst to all of this.


the foobaw team was so much better than the commanders as a name good lord.


Washington football team branding was low key some of the best in the league.


Who isn't a fan of the Washington Commies?


And Nick Khan is too good at securing the bag for them to ever do that.


WWE HQ is relocated to Saudi Arabia and Vince converts to Islam.


Muhammad Hassan is the guy to beat Roman


And people praise Tony’s long term storytelling!


Mansoor decade long title reign of terror.


I don't know how well MMM would go...


I'm thinking Iraqi sympathizer Cody.


gets his tattoo re-done to be the saudi arabia flag instead of the american one


Then later his I want my country back tour. History repeats itself booking.


A more powerful force then Durag Vince: Turban Vince


>WWE HQ is relocated to Saudi Arabia and Vince converts to Islam The ultimate heel turn.


Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if one of MBS' shell companies or whatever made a play.


Nick Khan's a great businessman but I don't know if he can massage this one. If anything he knows it'd be better for business for Vince to go.


Drop a few big contracts and the board will clap like trained seals. These people don’t have principles.


The board has no power here. Becuese Vince owns the shares with the largest voting power. Essentially he decides if he goes and no one else does.


I've now got the image of the next set of talent releases being announced and Vince is just unceremoniously dumped in the list with Ezekiel, LA Knight, Butch, and Samoa Joe (somehow). Make him find out through a text message. "We wish him well on his future endeavours."


They can’t release Ezekiel when Elrond is still set to debut. That would just be cruel. What would Elias think!?


It would actually be funny if in a future set of releases Ezekiel is ‘released’ but an Elrond debuts the next week.


Including Samoa Joe in that list genuinely made me chuckle. Take my updoot. TAKE IT!!!


False belief. If his staying is driving business away, as in tv contracts and advertisers, WWE would have to legally take action else they be sued by shareholders.


Yup, can't tank the product intentionally when people have money in the game.


You should go look at what happened at Papa John's and John Schnatter. He had controlling interest, etc. He no longer does anything day-to-day with Papa Johns because the board ousted him. There are numerous ways to wrest control away specifically for these reasons. Vince is going to get Papa John'd because the board, if nothing else, will look at Nick Khan, Stephanie, and HHH at the very least and trust them to be able to navigate these waters professionally, financially, and through marketing. Vince is no longer untouchable because what he did, removing the awfulness of the acts themselves, but the money trail all goes back to WWE and it will be linked to stock prices, stock cash outs, fiduciary principles Vince and co. are supposed to follow and failed to do. Vince's stock and voting power wield NO power in this situation. However, the board has to be willing to tear off the band-aid. They will, it just won't be overnight like some want. They'll let "their" investigation play out, which will also happen through media like WSJ continuing to chase this story. Vince is done. It's just a matter of when and how, not if at this point. But he'll try to do some Trump, Boris Johnson, et Al. maneuvering to stay in power for as long as possible before he no longer has the option.


Not true. There are clauses that exist for issues such as this one.


Yes, there are clauses that exist in places. None of us know if those clauses exist here - and given the ego of the person in question - I'd guess they don't.


Depends on if sponsors or investors actually put any pressure on them. It seems like views and ratings are actually going up to some extent now so business seems to be doing well. If Vince stepped away entirely it would likely improve company culture and creative to some extent but there's no financial reason to unless his actions lead to financial consequences. Seems unlikely considering similar scandals in other industries.


> Nick Khan's a great businessman but I don't know if he can massage this one. Just watch them have a deshaun watson celebration with the womens roster.


It's not particularly difficult After all just look at the sexual predators USA and Fox helped cover for for decades. Plus 99.5% of this has been public knowledge for years. The only new part is the potential use of a few million company dollars to pay for an affair. And that ain't coming out of Fox or USAs profits so they don't care. I get this is the wet dream dirtsheet writers have had for decades and therefore they love writing about it like its world changing, but unfortunately outside the wrestling bubble a rich CEO paying his mistress a few million dollars of company money is called a slow news day.


> I get this is the wet dream dirtsheet writers have had for decades and therefore they love writing about it like its world changing, but unfortunately outside the wrestling bubble a rich CEO paying his mistress a few million dollars of company money is called a slow news day. It is and it isn't, since several of them have quit for this exact same thing or even less.


He owns most of the voting shares. There is actually no way to force him out. Even if the rest of the board wanted to kick him out he could stick his heels in and take the company with him. The only way he goes is if he chooses to go.


Do we need to pressure Snickers again?


The advertising execs are probably also sticking their pens in company ink.


It’s like the song says “no chance in hell”.


"Come on out, you rapist!"


Should he go? Yes Will he go? No


This indecision's bugging me.


(Indecisión me molesta!)


Molestar got him in this mess


If he goes there will be trouble


(Si me voy va a haber peligro!)


So ya gotta let me know


TIL this was the actual lyric


If you go, there will be "double" the trouble...it kind of makes it a no-brainer decision, doesn't it? Why all the hemming and hawing?


Like indecision to call you


And hear your voice of treason




You got to let me know


I'd have said the same thing about Boris, Vince might well find out the same thing he did, the sort of people that will prop up a guy like Vince/Boris will stab them in the back in a second when the self preservation instinct kicks in.


"I'm sad to leave the best job in the WWE Universe, but them's the breaks, pal."


Will he go? Hell no


When Vince comes out on Smackdown tonight ![gif](giphy|MUeQeEQaDCjE4)




Carny industry


People in the United Kingdom might be getting a sense of Deja Vu


Could you explain what you mean?


Sure, [here](https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/07/07/uk-boris-johnson-resignation/)




vince will NEVER walk away. he will take the company down with him if he has to.


Narrator: he didn't.


He didn't straighten out his life that night. Instead he got drunk and fought a raccoon.




Imagine we get rid of Vince and Boris in one week. r/smartmarx will be dancing in the streets.


ZSJ will be found comatose in his room under a small mountain of victory zimas


Coming up next on UFC 264, Vince vs Boris - who worked who the worst?


Which is precisely why he'll be featured on the first 30 minutes of RAW on Monday.


Does everything this dude posts on Twitter get its own post here? Like, this is just a statement of opinion.


There's a report option of low effort tweet, I think. Could be wrong. But this would definitely fall into it.


It's funny because on a steam Wednesday he straight up said "please stop posting my tweets to reddit"


He should have tweeted it. That way we would have saw it.


Agreed. I like SRS a lot, and he's entitled to his opinion. Just don't get why this is worthy of a post on reddit.


I mean I do enjoy the discussion / discourse that these threads bring


Maybe this isn’t the best way to state it, but the discourse this topic brings worries me. I do not want us to shy away from these topics because they’re important and should be prioritized over wrestling. . . So when the headlines talk about Vince coercing women and sexual harassing employees, and the comments here are split on how we should react, i can’t say I enjoy people trying to trivialize this shit.


The problem I have is that I truly don’t believe a large group of the people on this sub actually give a damn about Vince’s indiscretions. It’s not about the women, it’s not about the misuse of power, it’s about his booking. The whole thing can seem trivial because at the end goal for this type of very loud poster is a different creative direction.


Why? Is reddit's standards so high or something? Gotta make room for the real think piece articles this sub generates?


Well they generate discussion.


Don’t forget to pay him $5 too


I don't think he should be publishing Fightful Select articles about Vince, then 20 minutes later giving his opinion about Vince


Like everyone else, this guy can do or say whatever he wants, I just don’t understand the point of posting it here. He is not some journalist who needs to uphold his integrity, he is just a dude who writes on the internet about wrestling for a living.


How is he different from a journalist if he writes about wrestling and reports wrestling news for a living… genuine question


He is a just a gossip columnist, he is as much a journalist as Perez Hilton.


Real journalist don't tell you how to think about a topic. They give you the topic, give you the information that is known, and let the reader decide. They are not supposed to give their personal feelings on the matter.


To be fair, real journalists would carefully identify their opinions and separate them from fact. Edward R. Murrow, one of the most respected pioneers of broadcast journalism, regularly delivered critical opinion pieces without ever damaging his journalistic credibility. Unfortunately, social media has removed the obligation (though definitely not the need) to clearly identify fact vs. opinion, and it’s a major reason why we as a society are so messed up right now.


The bigger issue I have is his immediate follow-up from the initial stepping down was him wanting Vince to step down from creative, because he doesn’t like it. He’s clouded in his disdain from the television product. Vince should go, but not because he doesn’t make a product that SRS enjoys.


I can understand your point, but I think the reason pointing out Vince's role in creative matters is that when the initial scandal broke, he "stepped down" from CEO responsibilities, but did explicitly stay on as head of creative. Which feels... incredibly gauche to still have him controlling the most front-facing part of the company while accused of these acts. Let me be clear, people who care more about not liking WWE's booking content than the actual crimes and ramifications thereof that Vince is responsible for need to desperately touch grass and get perspective, but calling for Vince to remove himself from ALL responsibilities, especially related to the television product that faces the audience, seems reasonable.


Nothing short of an indictment and an actual prep walk and mugshot will get him out of the chair.


You sweet summer child, the steroid trial didn’t make him budge, what makes you think this will?


It’s different now. Fox and NBC Universal are paying the bills and can force him out if they want.


Everyone says this but why would they want to? WWE is financial gold right there for everyone involved. NBC and Fox will only want him gone if advertisers are dropping out and we haven't heard of that happening.


If advertisers bail because of it that’s why. That’s how these tv networks get paid.


I would think if sponsors began threatening to cut ties with the company, for the sake of the company, maybe that would be the proverbial straw.


You're right. But they won't. As it stands for as much attention as the dirtsheets are giving this for finally seeing their wet dream personified, the truth is almost all of this is old information. And the part that isn't, the few million dollar payoff, rarely if ever results in anything more than a minor misdemeanor charge. There's nothing here the sponsors are gonna care about atm.


take kevin with you too vince


He's 81% of the voting power of the board. He literally goes NO WHERE unless he agrees to it. Technically speaking Stephanie could move to terminate him as an employee of the company (CEO). But that only works if he's also agreed to give up his voting power during this investigation. And that still means he can reinstate himself as chairman of the board.


This sub is going to be exhausting for the rest of the weekend. Can we not make a post every time someone tweets an opinion, please?


Hot take, Sean.




While I don’t necessarily disagree, Sean is so obnoxious


I don't think he will.




Nothing will change


I'll never understand him. All the money in the world and instead of spending time with his family and grandkids he works 7 days a week 365 days a year. Like why?


Thank god fake wrestling journalist gave us his opinion.


Vince quivering in his boots as we speak. More on Fightful Select


SRS with the “breaking news opinion”. Did people really read this and go “oh yeah, now that SRS says it, he really should go!” Likely just mad (like other wrestling reporters) that WSJ broke the article and they have nothing to add.


I agree, but SRS tweeting this is about the equivalent of a fan holding a sign saying it. Unless someone internally says something, or even some financial expert, it’s not noteworthy.


As always, great unbiased journalism from SRS


Lol thanks to whoever sent me a Reddit cares over this. Get fucked


Agreed but he’s not gonna leave. It’s the right thing to do but why would he do it?


I normally love SRS, but I disagree...Vince needs to hold onto power til his last gasp. I want to hear reports of how a 105 year old Vince is slumped over in a wheelchair and incoherent but still in charge of everything in WWE. With rumors of him wanting to wrestle again bringing back Trish Stratus storylines


Just every year keep insisting someone bleed him the hard way or hit him with a frog splash until his calcified heart finally refuses to beat.


Dafuq does shit Ross sappy bollocks know?


Not over his dead body. ![gif](giphy|gdKAVlnm3bmKI)


What a brave take




That's wrestling journalists in a nutshell. Stuff they all criticized TNA for is now praised when AEW does it. The standard they held old WWF matches is now gone for modern wrestling. They know their audience and how they get paid.


Welcome to reddit


He's gotten away with things like this so many times in the past. I hope this time is different. I think that the only thing that could force him out is pressure from the board, and if WWE money wasn't involved, they probably won't care that he has abused his position.


McMahon is sadly like Trump. Until something changes they can say and do whatever the fuck they want and nothing will ever happen. I hope to god those pricks get what they deserve, but I doubt it.


WWE making record profit each quarter -> Vince has to go


What an out of left field take that no one else was saying even before the scandal. SRS is truly a one of a kind thinker


I agree, but people who conflate that he needs to go because they don’t like the creative hurt the cause of why he should step down.




WWE is still doing really good from what Ive read, so that probably won’t happen. But I agree with SRS here. I said years ago when I watched that Triple H should be the man after I saw what he did with NXT. I know ego won’t let Vince go until he’s in the ground, but let Shawn run NXT and Triple H run WWE main, imo.


Not really a shocking take considering we’ve all thought this for years.


Be interesting to hear from the talent


Hey hey ho ho, Vince McMahon has got to go.


He won’t. He’s gonna do this until he drops dead. He will never retire.


He should. But the fact they made his Daughter the interim CEO during the investigation just showed me at the outset that WWE has no intention of taking this seriously.


Vince: https://media.tenor.com/images/8acf258f5fa36a5d660d41fff18ca70b/tenor.gif


Agree. But seems like there is still more disease to get rid of as well. I imagine WWE could be a pretty good place to work if a culture shift or at least 'bleaching" at the top of company/talent relations/creative happens. It's the best thing for the wrestling business that we move on from Vince MacMahon and his cronies.


Then. Now. Forever.


Won’t happen. Just like Watson.


Does anyone know what HR is like in WWE? Is there an HR department in WWE? The allegations referencing on-screen talent(“independent contractors”), over which McMahon has direct financial and creative control, are beyond scandalous.


HR only ever exists to protect the company.


A shame the Vince biopic will probably be canned because of this. I was quite looking forward to it.


Its genuinely the best move buisness wise. The company distances itself from the scandal and what's more likely to get lapsed fans back then vince leaving? If Vince leaves I know I'll be checking out WWE again just to see what changes.


More of a personal opinion that a wrestling headline no? I mean I don’t srs saying he has to go with be the final straw


Kind of unrelated but I find it funny how a lot of wrestling fans were tripping over each other to try and cancel various wrestlers over accusations these past few years but with Vince you get nowhere near the level of outrage that other smaller isolated incidents got. There’s a double standard for Vince even if you ignore the billionaire angle.


Weirdly if Vince had kept the wrestling business as the wrestling business and not the sports entertainment business there probably would have been less chance of any of this getting out


Agreed. Agreed. Agreed.


Yeah man there’s no real coming back from this. He needs to be given the treatment he’d give anyone else in this situation.


_SRS debuting his new nadhim zahawi gimmick confirmed_


I agree but I’ve also thought that for years.


He owns the company


This is going to end with a swat team and a hostage situation isn't it?


Vince: Lmao bet


I hope Vince stays until the day he dies.... Not because I like him, or what he does.... I just love the chaos.


Vince needed to go 15 years ago 🤷




SRS is angling for a job under the Hunter regime.


Says the dweeb sitting at his computer


So much for whatever journalistic credibility this dude has. But then again 'wrestling journalism' is ridiculous anyway.


Vince will come out tonight flossing on stage to the tune of maybe half the audience chanting his theme, then leave without saying a word.


This is such a stupid tweet.