By - elephantintheway
They're not even bothering to pretend anymore
Straight to baby harvesting. Mothers are just the vessel.
My family was having a discussion about this and one person said a concise point:
“If you think there’s a black market for unborn babies now, just wait until the illegal abortions start.”
It’s a truth pro-life people seem to gloss over.
I think the GOP is very worried about the US population curves and how badly everything will implode all at once. Reminds me of the Jared Diamond book Collapse.
They just can't imagine the solution is to make life more affordable, they want poor and desperate people to fight wars for them until they can get robots to do it for them.
The they are billionaires, they want all us poors to die for their luxury.
I understand the need for more folks to send through the war machine. I also think they need us to keep the economy moving, to an extent. The rich don’t move their money as much as the masses do. I buy junk all the time for whatever reason. They need the masses to use, serve and buy in an endless cycle to superficially prop things up. The military is a part of it, but they also need our bodies and our paycheck to paycheck lifestyles so they can keep us on the edge of oblivion and find new ways to exploit us. They will keep squeezing us until there is nothing left. That’s why they need babies. Let’s see what capitalist ideas pop up for unwillingly pregnant women. Women won’t benefit in the least, but there’s a new market there. They may start fining pregnant women for not reporting their pregnancies to state governments.
I am currently arguing with someone who is anti-choice but is a big gun nut.
He literally said that most of the gun deaths are "teen gang bangers in chicago" in response to me stating the biggest cause of death in children now is guns.
His mask came right off by basically saying black teenagers don't actually count as people when they die.
I also had another guy tell me that the only difference between a woman and a life support machine was that he cannot breed with a life support machine.
The masks have come off *REAL* quick.
The only reason he can't breed with a life support machine is it would reject him and he can't figure it out past that.
“Whatever. Life support machine was ugly anyway.”
God. People are so ignorant and disgusting
This isn't ignorance, it's malice and hatred toward women.
Same people who yell “my body, my choice” when it comes to anything related to protecting themselves from COVID...
Because they are being smarmy assholes who think they have a real gotcha.
They stole that from us too! Those fuckers!!!
And par for the course, they use it without any understanding of the meaning behind it.
You get that "akshually mass shooting are typically gang-violence" a lot.
And it's like...okay? And? They're still fucking people, and they're still dying in unprecedented amounts. Are you really okay with it just because they're typically black and urban???
Americans are fucking monsters.
Yeah, he specifically said teen gang bangers in Chicago and when I called him out on it he tried to go BuT i NeVeR sAiD bLaCk PeOplE yOu DiD yOu ArE ThE rEaL rAcIst.
They think they are so sneaky and clever with that crap. Everyone sees right through their little code speak.
They really think they're subtle.
It's kind of funny, because it's so goddamn obvious, but it's also really fucking scary, because it *works* on millions.
That dog whistle was outed ages ago.
Yep, and if it's not that it's "well the majority of gun deaths are suicides anyway!"
Like that makes it better?? Roughly 70% of people who survive a suicide attempt do not try again for the rest of their lives. With a bullet they don't get that chance, maybe it shouldn't be so easy to succeed on the first try!
Fucken wot 😓
These people love to scream about Chicago (thanks Obama/s). But seriously Chicago isn't even in the top 10 for most dangerous cities to live in. But no one was even talking about Chicago before Obama. It's pure racism at work there. Here is a link from 2022 ranking the most dangerous cities in the country. And while Chicago is on the list it's way down on the list as compared to cities in red states and conservative areas. It's a strawman argument and I'm kinda over it.
I always love that Memphis is on there and the rest of TN uses that as an excuse to fuck us over and shit all over Memphis when in reality it is the complete lack of support and shitty politicians in Nashville being typical southern white men with their "fuck you I got mine" mentalities that keep us from making any significant improvements to curb the violence.
Also fuck Bill Lee in particular. Marsha Blackburn can also rot in hell.
As a fellow Tennessean I'd just like to also say fuck Bill Lee and fuck Marsha Blackburn.
Save the fucking zygotes, embryos, and fetuses but I guess black children don't fit into the fucking forced birth agenda. Shocker that people who would rather a woman die than choose what she does with her body are also racist assholes.
And let me guess, he’s also offering to adopt all these unwanted babies. But only the white ones of course /s.
I wOn’T bE cUcKeD inTo rAisiNg aNotHer mAn’s cHiLd!!!
Because they don't have to.
Great. A friend of mine would be dead without that. And she was TRYING to get pregnant.
The majority of these cases are wanted babies. Where abortion is accessible and legal, most who don’t want to be pregnant don’t get to the point where abnormalities are detected, or life threatening complications occur, or even where there’s a placenta to detach and cause severe blood loss etc.
Although life threatening complications can happen in early pregnancy, like ectopic or molar pregnancy, most occur later and most who don’t want to continue have already had an abortion by then. Of course there are always those who don’t know they are pregnant until later.
Almost half of abortions in the US occur before 9 weeks, and more than 92% occur before 13 weeks. A far higher percentage of abortions are pre 9 weeks now than a decade ago.
Only 1% occur past 21 weeks and given the process of a later abortion, the vast majority are terminations for medical reasons. (These are US figures). Nobody is choosing a later abortion deliberately.
But that doesn’t fit the narrative, of course.
They want women to have babies. But they can’t make babies if they’re dead!
My mother would have been dead without it before she even had a chance to have my sister and me.
We would not exist, my dad would be widowed in his early 20's and my mom dead at 21 years old. Great law they've made there to protect the sanctity of "Family".
Clearly she should have kept her legs closed, hussy. If she does, it’s obviously her fault and she was a witch
(/s x 1,000,000,000,000 btw, I hope your friend is okay now)
Thankfully yes, and their kiddo is almost 2 :)
I never would have known if dad hadn't been chatting with me and shared. I suppose I don't know if there's any lingering feelings, but they're definitely loving parents.
Same here. My best friend in college was literally bleeding out, and she so desperately wanted a baby, and she'd already experienced a stillbirth. My heart broke for her.
Guess she should have thought about fertility issues before she was born female! /s
Is this ignorance? Or do they just find the idea of women buried with the partially developed fetus that killed them desirable? Pretty gravestones to weep over?
How can one be ignorant of a line that literally says "life of the mother"? There is only one excuse to be ignorant of what it means and that is not speaking english at all. They're openly saying that they want women to die in agony.
As the Abrahamic scripture says they should.
And as the book of Job says, a man can always get another wife and family since the ones he had first were so disposable and didn't matter at all.
And the process of dying to bring forth the next generation with only access to primitive health care can continue.
The OT actually says life begins at first breath. It literally supports the idea of abortion up and to birth has occurred
I started going to a Baptist Sunday school at age 4 and I feel like that's the impression I somehow got too.
That the soul enters the body at first breath. But, I read a lot too as kid so I could have gotten the idea from somewhere else too.
Judaism, as I understand it, also from the OT supports first breath and I hope some progress is made in the U.S. regarding religious freedom in this most vital fight for our rights.
It's not surprising you learned that. It's more the Catholics that have had a sticking point with abortion specifically. I can't remember exactly why, but it's always been a big thing with them. Protestants in the US got inflamed with this post Civil Rights decision because it got rolled into a bunch of other things the leadership was angry about.
One of my friends is a pretty devout protestant and really has a real hate hard-on for how much the Catholic church interjected into and distorted Christianity.
Yet he's also vehemently prolife.
I cannot make it make sense. In 99% of situations, he's like "look to the bible, not the churches". Except for women's reproduction, then suddenly he's mr. Conformist
Please challenge him as often as you can!
And it isn't pro-life if it's a movement that sentences women to death. They never should have been able to call themselves that. It's pro-forced birth. And then they don't care.
Okay, I wasn't sure if the OT breath of life was a Christian concept or just a Judaic one.
Catholics have all kinds of political rules that have nothing to do with Christian teaching. There were so many women and even enslaved (Roman) early church leaders, eaely churches did not horde wealth, marriage of priests used to be a thing, and anti-contraception and anti-abortion seems to be cynically about ensuring more Catholics be born at any cost.
Protestants, at least the political non-Christian wing do seem to be more about causing widespread suffering and promoting hate and intolerance. All things directly opposed to Biblical teachings.
I think a Jewish group is challenging the SCOTUS ruling, claiming it violates their religious beliefs.
This is not what appears in the Old Testament. Sure, women were treated as disposable, but fetuses were treated on a level far, far lower than that. Not to mention that, at least in the Rabbinic interpretation, you're allowed to override literally every other law in order to save a life, with fetuses explicitly not counting as lives.
Yes, the Bible is old, regressive, and should be thrown out. But modern American Conservatives are even more regressive than the Bible.
Agree completely with your second paragraph! Like the world has never seen before since so much of reproductive health care was regulated to women's business and secrecy and now with modern science all those secrets have been exposed. That's control like no women at any time has experienced ever.
Women and girl children are not counted in the bronze age/iron age OT. How much more complicated if potentially male fetuses were given personhood over actual persons? I guess it is a Space Age regression and the OT at least got that one right not prioritizing fetuses over people.
Just as a note, if you go back and read the Tanakh, what you find is, yes, there's some bad shit in there, but also some good shit, but mostly just tons and tons of weird shit. Like, it's not that it's actively contrary to modern mores, but just entirely orthogonal to them.
Yes, there's one line that can be construed as banning ~~homophobia~~ *homosexuality*, but there are pages and pages devoted to bull sacrificing etiquette, and what you're supposed to do while pus is coming out of your dick, and how you've gotta fuck your dead brother's wife, and so on.
So, you know, there's also that.
>"The only thing that we're concerned about — and it is a big concern — is there is a broad and undefined 'life of the mother' exception that we would like to eliminate," said Pro-Life Wisconsin executive director Matt Sande. "We would like to replace it with language requiring equal care for mother and child."
In some respects I think it is ignorance. I was talking about this with a labor/delivery nurse, and a lot of these people have massive blinders on about the realities and risks of pregnancy and childbirth. Every pregnancy is just a magical, sweet, beautiful baby to them. all the things that can go wrong? they just don't SEE it or understand it unless it happens to THEM. You can talk to them about HELPP, or anencephaly, or any number of the horrible things that can happen and they just... don't really hear it. Unless they themselves are hit with it, it's like that stuff doesn't exist to them. (kind of conservative thinking in a nutshell - they oppose things until they experience personally. And even then, a lot of times, they think their situation is special and doesn't apply to others)
A pro-forced birther told me last weekend that no women with access to proper healthcare is at risk of dying from a pregnancy.
Like. Pre-existing conditions and diseases apparently don't exist to make it too dangerous to proceed with a pregnancy carrying what would have otherwise been a viable fetus.
My one and only (very much wanted and long waited for) pregnancy ended abruptly at 24 weeks to to preeclampsia. Now I had some risk factors for it, including the extra weight I packed on from fertility treatments, and the fact that it was an IVF pregnancy, but preeclampsia hits the healthy, thin, naturally conceiving women all the time too. There was literally nothing I did to cause it and nothing we could do to stop it outside delivery of the placenta, and therefore the baby, once it had gotten to a point as to be life threatening for both of us. I had all the medical care in the world as an IVF mom, I’d been on prenatal vitamins for over 4 years, it made no difference on getting preeclampsia.
I 100% said to my husband after the leak of the SCOTUS decision that this will 100% kill woman like me. If a doctor is more worried about being charged with homicide for delivering a baby that doesn’t make it, but faces no consequences for mom and baby dying together without intervention, then more women will die from preventable causes. My baby beat the odds (40-60% chance of survival depending on what source you look at), and so did I, but many women lose their babies and their lives every year. 100% the only known “cure” for preeclampsia is delivery, and it can hit any time after 20 weeks, currently medically viability is somewhere around 23-24 weeks, with a 21 week baby being the record. Micropreemies odds and long term health get better as medicine does, but prematurity is a *permanent* state of being. My son has lung disease that makes him high risk (it’s been a “fun” pandemic in our household), and is otherwise healthy but at risk of SO many things as he grows, all the way to adulthood and beyond. He gets to live with the consequences of preeclampsia for his entire life, in a world that increasingly doesn’t give a shit about the vulnerable once they are ejected from the womb.
Don’t get me wrong, if I had it to do over I would 100% not change anything that gave me this awesome kid, but I’m glad I had a doctor who gave a shit if I lived or died and balanced that with my desire to keep my baby in as long as possible. We’re talking about women and doctors being denied that choice and it’s a genocide.
The vast majority of people do not understand what you said - that prematurity is a permanent state of being. They think it’s a couple weeks of cozy NICU cuddles and then everything is 100% normal.
I honestly blame it on how little we still know about prematurity, especially extremely premature babies like my son. Medical science didn’t even try saving late term preemies in respiratory distress until the late 1960’s, neonatology has only existed since like the 70’s. Medicine used to refer to Preemies as “weaklings.” My great grandma (born somewhere around 1910) weighed two pounds at birth, but breathing. They sent her home to die. Her parents placed her in a shoebox near (in?) the stove and likely dripped milk down her throat. She lived to be like 87.
I have to admire how far neonatology has come in a relatively short amount of time, but like you said, too many people think “oh a bit of nicu time then home and normal now.” Or that a preemie is just a small newborn that needs to gain weight.
Yep, being premature follows you your entire life. I’m 27 and to this day have found out health problems I’ve had go back to being born early.
I didn’t reach many milestones on time. I’ll always have the risk of going completely blind because the extra oxygen they give you to make up for your lungs not being fully developed fucks up your retinas, I’m already blind in one eye as a consequence. The NICU mainly makes it so you hopefully don’t die and have a chance.
Ugh that’s painful :(
Not to mention, especially in anti abortion states, lots of places don’t have easy access to proper prenatal care. (A big reason those states have higher maternal mortality, another fact these people are willfully blind to)
They also didn't understand that a fetus at 17 weeks cannot survive outside of the mother's body? They genuinely thought that a 17 week old fetus could be delivered and provided medical care and live. Like. I honestly don't even know how to talk to someone who lives on some other plane of reality.
Yeah my uncle was like “viability is now 15-20 weeks” NO ITS NOT!!!!!
I went to college in terre haute Indiana, at one point I needed to see a gynecologist, and the earliest any of them in the town could see me was 6 months out, and it was 8 months till the next appointment they had and about 9 months out till their schedule was open. My issue went away on its own before I could get in to see them thankfully (my period was missing for 3 months, and I was hoping to get checked out because I'd already gotten it confirmed via blood test somewhere that didn't do actual exams in a different state that it wasn't pregnancy)
Proper health care lol ya if you're rich and people still die during routine operations like brest augmentation. Especially in the usa your better off going to Canada or Serbia. (one in 4,800 U.S. women dying from complications of pregnancy or childbirth, the same as Belarus and just slightly better than Serbia's rate of one in 4,500.) like slightly more risky in serbia but its not going to cost any where near as much.
That's the message I've generally been getting about broad conservative viewports on general and reproductive women's rights. They have this "ideal", and to them there's almost no chance that someone "reasonable" to their standards would stray from this ideal, intentionally or accidentally.
Women shouldn't go to college and have jobs, and they should get married as soon as they are fertile to have 13 children to bring to church as a stay at home mom. And American legal standards should uphold this very narrow, specific ideal.
So parental leave laws are useless, since moms have kids and stay at home then dads work. Abortion laws are useless, since no one should have sex or a pregnancy outside of that marriage (not even mentioning the fact that not even all pregnancies in every marriage are wanted). Protecting IVF and other fertility treatments are useless, because the patient base for that is older women with careers, and you won't have a difficult pregnancy if you get married and start trying in your early 20's or younger.
Only a few steps away from the old school "republican motherhood" movement that said women don't need the right to vote, because if you have sons then you can raise your sons to vote the way you would have wanted to.
asked an anti choicer about that
their response: "ya i keep seeing people bring that up like it's something that happens"
"like it happens" ??????? it DOES happen! this is why it's a medical decision to be made between a pregnant person snd their doctor, not a gov entity to decide for you once you get through the bureaucratic red tape (totally conducive to emergency situations where time is critical)
or it used to be, anyway
I’m drafting a letter to all the reps and senators from my state asking them to codify, federally, protections for physicians trying to save lives.
“Like that happens”… that’s just gross. I can’t even with people. Like it’s imaginary.
same. it's just a google away but it might require them to think.
willing to share the draft? with any identifying info scrubbed. i live somewhere that very recently passed a bunch of restrictions now that they have the conservative courts blessing.
The letters I wrote went like this
My name is ____ and I and a constituent of ___ and ___, living in (town, zip). I am writing in the wake of the recent Supreme Court decision, asking for your immediate action to protect women in (state).
A woman's right to choose is fundamental and currently at risk. I am asking you do everything in your power to ammend this.
This would include codifying abortion rights as law and amending our state's constitution to protect women's rights to make choices concerning their own bodies.
This issue is urgent and extremely important to me. As such, I will be following this progress closely, donating and voting accordingly.
Please protect our rights!
The cost of quadrupedal adaptations for walking upright is that Humans are uniquely poor at reproducing. We have to gestate barely developed (almost larval) offspring to get them out while they can still fit through the birth canal and are limited to generally only one at a time. Human pregnancies are fraught with challenges for this reason.
Most mammals are only fertile during certain times of year, so that their offspring are produced during periods where they are most likely to live. Humans, to compensate for their reproductive limitations, have constant gestational cycles year-round and a long period of fertility.
Humans evolved with an expectation that a lot of pregnancies would fail. Despite modern medical advances, many of them still do.
My family is full of anti choice. And I find it hilarious that my niece who is thier perfect grand kid is going into nursing school to work with babies. Like these people think she's not going to see the dark side of pregnancy. She's going to have that blindfold ripped off so fast and it's all because of them xD
Ooof I would not want her as my nurse though. Yikes. Forced birthers should not be allowed into medical fields imo. That’s a massive conflict of interest.
She's actually a really sweet girl, she's just blinded by loyalty to my parents and her mother. This is also the first time her her life she's not going to be living with our family. I expect the world is going to seem a lot different now that she's away at uni.
No, that's exactly it: Better to be a Dead Mother than a Living Woman. The Dead Mother can't control her own narrative and her memory can be used to emotionally blackmail her survivors (assuming there are any) into cult-approved behavior; you can describe her as the fucking Virgin Mary. The Living Woman, on the other hand, unfortunately has something of a voice, can be inconveniently emotional and contradictory, the potential for literacy, and may begin to think for herself.
"Better to be a dead mother than a living woman"... fucking chilling with how true it is.
The Dead Girl trope - in literature, media, and now in real life
On a night like this I remember the child
who came with fifteen summers to her name,
and she lay down alone at my feet
without midwife or doctor or friend to hold her hand
and she pushed her secret out into the night,
far from the town tucked up in little scandals,
bargains struck, words broken, prayers, promises,
and though she cried out to me in extremis
I did not move,
I didn’t lift a finger to help her,
I didn’t intercede with heaven,
nor whisper the charmed word in God’s ear.
From “The Statue of the Virgin Mary at Granard Speaks,” by Paula Meehan. (Look up Ann Lovett)
They see those “feel good” stories about some baby born extremely premature and figure that’s a common outcome now…never mind the host of health problems those super preemy babies often grow up with.
And no real.questions about WHY so many babies are born prematurely now. (stress, poor maternal health, older first time mothers, lack of healthcare, lack of nutrition)
Oh, I know people born under those circumstances with life long health issues and needing multiple surgeries.
There's so much that can and does go wrong with pregnancies.
And agreed! Those stories are outliers and they are ignoring the long term consequences. Miracles are rare and hoping for one is unrealistic to the extreme.
They're so brainwashed that they think it doesnt happen to good christians like them.
Until it does - and then, crisis
Well, then their abortion health care becomes the only moral and righteous abortion health care ever, didn’t you know that?
It’s right in Uterii 15:10 - for the lord so sayeth, since thou has shamed other abotions thouest shall have a righteous abortion and shall enshrine thineself in hypocritical glory.
“You wanted to have sex, you little bitch. Here are your deserved consequences!”
Why no consequences for the fornicating men? Surely, this too is a sin?
But, yes, woman take the all the consequences, suffering, and the entirety of the blame.
It's malicious the cruelty is the point. The sexual revolution is being undone right before our very eyes. Contraception will be next. I'm so greatful to have had a hysterectomy but I am very very afraid for the women in my life and all over this country who will have their lives destroyed by all of this. It's also going to end up being a voting rights issue. If a woman is convicted of the felony of abortion or when contraception is outlawed like they are trying to do with IUD and emergency contraceptive in Louisiana those women will lose their rights to vote. If they make assisting in an abortion a felony many women and men on the liberal side will lose their right to vote. Same thing if they outlaw same sex relationships. When people are convicted of sodomy they will lose their right to vote. This goes so much deeper than so many have realized yet. Imagine a country where anyone convicted of any of these things can't vote in presidential elections. And if people flee to blue states what does that mean for those left /stuck in red states...
I think it excites them (not sexually) to have such a *visible* evidence of their own state of mind. 'I am SO DEDICATED to this principle I am prepared to cause death! I am so proud of myself. '
/not even being ironic.
I think there is definitely a competitive, "I'm more pro-life than you" edge to this.
> Or do they just find the idea of women buried with the partially developed fetus that killed them desirable?
I would not be surprised if they think it'll only happen to liberals. So they think they're punishing liberals.
A chance to snag a new 18 years old wife if you ask me.
She wouldn’t have needed an abortion if she wasn’t a whore in the first place, so yes, she should rot - that’s their idea and desire. They are vampires that feed on suffering.
Some is ignorance about how dangerous pregnancy can be.
I think some of it is also "Well, any *good* mother should *want* to die for her child."
Oppression has always been the point of this. A poor woman whose body is unable to produce more workers is useless and therefore her life does not matter. I worthless women dying is the cost of preventing a loophole in this law then its a cost they are happy to pay.
The folks who support this measure expect to have the means to obtain whatever care THEY will need regardless of their states dumb laws.
The states that are outlawing ending a pregnancy for ectopic pregnancies are doing the same thing. There is no viable ectopic pregnancy for zygote or pregnant person. The zygote/embryo/fetus can never turn into a living baby even if the mom wanted it; the mother will 100% die every time if an ectopic pregnancy isn't removed.
They literally don't care. No medical intervention in some parts of the country. If you get an ectopic pregnancy you will 100% die unless you can get to another state.
I work near a Planned Parenthood and I flip those people off every time I drive by. I'd prefer to tar and feather them so they look as ridiculous as they sound, but it's better than nothing.
Should we go all Carrie on them and just douse them in buckets of pig blood?
I live in NC and i saw this anti-abortion group saying that they were “pro womens rights, including unborn women”. 🤦🏻♀️
How's that fetus going to survive once its host is dead? Once again, pro-life isn't what these people are about. Control. Control. Control.
I saw a dude genuinely saying something along the lines of "children who grow up as the result of ectopic pregnancies". . Jesus fucking Christ, these are the men making the laws that control women's bodies 🤦♀️🤦♀️
I don't understand what's to face palm about? My son is in 4th grade with a boy named Jimmy who grew up from an ectopic. He's pretty shy and quiet; very small. Sits in the back row in his mason jar of saline just soaking it all in. He's a good kid, but fails PE.
You had me in the first half 🤣
Can I use this. Like seriously it's brilliant.
I hate to admit this, but I didn't know what an ectopic pregnancy was until I had one when I was 21 years old. I nearly died of blood loss before I even got to the hospital.
Once there my (now ex) husband came and told me that I was pregnant as if it were the happiest news possible. I was elated! I'd been told I couldn't have kids when I was 16. Just minutes later I was put under. Emergency surgery was done. I thought it was to save my baby.
Imagine my horror when I woke up and asked about it only to be told by the nurse that there wasn't a baby anymore. I felt too stupid to even let her see me cry.
And not only would I not be here without that abortion, but neither would the child I had, and raised, after that.
That dude was stupid. But so are a lot of people. It's not taught in school or anything, although it really should be. Especially with these new laws!
Wtf, why didn't the doctor explain to you what was happening and what the outcome would be? Nobody cares what women experience 😐
In emergent cases, if there isn’t time, consent is implied. Aka if we don’t do this right this second you are dead. Then they don’t explain.
They’ll just reimplant fetuses into another woman, not unlike their plan for reimplantment of ectopic pregnancy. It will be easy!!! No problem. Surely some god fearing women would love to carry it.
*****Remember, they know better than those pesky doctors, scientists, and ya know basic biological functions.*****
I hate them so, so much. It’s impressive how much.
I am also impressed with the level of hatred I'm capable of feeling. I didn't know the depths my soul could feel that feeling. I didn't know I could feel it. I'm so angry.
Dude I’m so angry that my period started three days early and I’m usually clockwork
Wow, I’m not completely surprised due to the stress though. I had cramps for 3 days after the ruling. So weird. I thought for sure I was going to start early but I didn’t. What a damn dystopian hellscape are we living in?!
I imagine technology will advance to a point that fetus can be extracted from a woman and be frozen, and then it can be implanted into another person or a machine to continue development. This technology to fetus will be like IVF to eggs. Abortion will be like extracting a fetus and freezing it, and women can earn money selling the fetus.
How many anti-abortionists will buy the fetus, pay for its continue development or surrogate for it, and adopt the babies? Will they do the same for the ones with Down syndrome? Will they do the same for the fetus who will die anyway? Will they pay the taxes so the government can save the fetus?
What a shit hole of a country America has become.
Loool "has become" nah fam you just woken up
has become? i’d argue it’s always been, particularly for women/bipoc/children/lgbtqia, etc. our history makes that very clear and our present is a direct consequence of what our past has bred.
Eh. I would say in the 70s end we were starting to get our shit together. Women were working, segregation was on the decline. Economy was starting to go up. People had more access to proper nutrition and wage laws were still protecting people.
Then in the 80s everything went into a tailspin. Thanks Reaganomics!
We’re a deeply sick country if we don’t have the strength or will to fight off lunatic barbarians like these. Russia and China are watching closely, like vultures.
People don't realize that the current Republican Party is the first ever religious party of the United States. They are controlled by Christian fundamentalists (aka evangelicals). They will never stop imposing their "religions" on others, as demonstrated by the Christian fundamentalists in the Supreme Court of the United States. The best saving grace of Trump is that he is lazy, but these Christian fundamentalists are relentless. The more they get, the more they want. It is because their self-righteousness know no bounds and their solutions don't work. Ending RvW won't reduce abortions. Instead of realizing their mistakes, they will double down and insist it was obstruction from "deep states" or "liberals" or it was because policies were too lenient, just like Doomsday cults stick to prophecy regardless of how many unfulfillments.
Please vote for Democrats as if your lives are depending on it. Otherwise, we will very likely be turned into Iran.
The best book I read about modern day Republican Party is "The Authoritarians" by Bob Altemeyer. The book was published in 2006, a decade before Trump. The author predicted that American would elect someone like Trump. Of course, the author didn't know it would be Trump, but he listed the personality traits of the leaders and all of them are shared by Trump. Also, he predicted that the core supporters of these leaders would be evangelicals.
Here is the conclusion of the book.
>So what’s to be done right now? The social dominators and high RWAs presently marshaling their forces for the next election in your county, state and country, are perfectly entitled to do what they’re doing. They have the right to organize, they have the right to proselytize, they have the right to select and work for candidates they like, they have the right to vote, they have the right to make sure folks who agree with them also vote. Jerry Falwell has already declared, “We absolutely are going to deliver this nation back to God in 2008!”
>If the people who are not social dominators and right-wing authoritarians want to have those same rights in the future, they, you, had better do those same things too, now. You do have the right to remain silent, but you’ll do so at everyone’s peril. You can’t sit these elections out and say “Politics is dirty; I’ll not be part of it,” or “Nothing can change the way things are done now.”The social dominators want you to be disgusted with politics, they want you to feel hopeless, they want you out of their way. They want democracy to fail, they want your freedoms stricken, they want equality destroyed as a value, they want to control everything and everybody, they want it all. And they have an army of authoritarian followers marching with the militancy of “that old-time religion” on a crusade that will make it happen, if you let them.
Recently? 2016? 2000? Curious when America "became" a shithole...
So I had a situation where I got my period (I don't remember being late) and I bled very heavily. My mom (who was visiting me at the time I was early 20s) told me she thought I had fibroids and just wait until the period was over to go to the OB/GYN. So I waited and waited, got worse and worse, eventually I counted up on the calendar that my "period" had been going on for over a month.
I went to the doctor and they asked "Could you be pregnant?" I said "no I don't think so my period came on time". They tested me and I tested positive. They did an ultrasound and could find no baby. They thought I might have an ectopic pregnancy and rushed me into surgery within minutes. Turned out to be an infected miscarriage and not ectopic but I have to wonder if by todays standards I would not be allowed to have the D&C and just left to bleed out and have the infection get worse. I was already in a severely anemic state from 30 days of heavy bleeding.
I was thinking of doing something like write my obituary or put like a black stripe on my avatars... to show that today's policies would have killed me. I have some VERY religious a-holes in my family. I don't think they realize I am still living because of things they are fighting against.
Yes, you do have to wonder. Procedures will be delayed while doctors consult with judges or legal departments about what they should do. Doctors and hospitals absolutely cannot afford to be tied up in criminal proceedings after the fact while all their other patients also need healthcare. So they will be extra cautious, and women will suffer injury to their fertility while waiting to make sure their health or life is in danger.
And even if they end up treating the patient - the time they spent with lawyers is time they could have spent treating other patients. The whole thing is a criminal diversion of much needed resources.
You know what, you should absolutely do that!
You should also make those little pamphlets they pass out at funerals and pass them out to forced birthers. "Here. This is how you would know me if my medical emergency happened today. Sorry I didn't die to feed your ego."
Oooohhhh... that is a good idea. OR what if we ran actual obituaries in papers in these states? I was thinking of turning my facebook into a memorial page cuz fuck facebook anyway and everyone in my life that is anti-abortion is on there. I haven't logged in for years anyway.
Also, if you know anyone handy, erect tombstones (re-painted Halloween Alley ones work fine) with names, dates and causes of death.
Cause of death: Sepsis due to ectopic pregnancy
(Actually, the cheap styrofoam ones would make great picket signs. Show up carrying that and with an X in electrical.tape over your mouth.)
Something similar happened to me. Fortunately my older female neighbor recognized it as a MMC and rushed me to the doctor for a D&C.
"The only thing that we're concerned about — and it is a big concern — is there is a broad and undefined 'life of the mother' exception that we would like to eliminate," said Pro-Life Wisconsin executive director Matt Sande. "We would like to replace it with language requiring equal care for mother and child."
Wisconsin Family Action president Julaine Appling said ideally, her group would like the current "life of the mother" exception eliminated.
"In a perfect world, we are not a group that thinks that exceptions are necessary or good," Appling said. "We think at a minimum it has to be more clearly defined."
PROTEST. Shut this country down. NOW.
Withhold all monetary support from individuals, politicians, and, most importantly, all commercial and religious entities that do not publicly support the right to legal abortion.
AND Start gathering your documents and get registered to vote NOW. Red states are counting on people to give up when facing voting restrictions and laws designed to suppress Democrat votes. Do not wait. Do not count on vote-by-mail. Do not count on extended days or hours to vote. Plan to vote in person. Plan to wait in long lines. Plan to make your vote count.
Your last paragraph is the reason why, when RvW was repealed, a lot of republican politicians inwardly winced.
They \*know\* its going to bit them in the ass.
Its now everybody's job to make sure it does bite, and bite hard.
And what was once the supreme court is taking up a case that will gut voting rights and elections. They are gearing up to make it so state legislatures can decide elections, not voters, therefore ensuring a Christofascist hellscape ruled by the minority.
> her group would like the current "life of the mother" exception eliminated. "In a perfect world, we are not a group that thinks that exceptions are necessary or good," Appling said. "We think at a minimum it has to be more clearly defined."
What they are saying is "we don't want people to lie and say the mother is endanger just to get an abortion." Which, I can totally get, but have no idea how to make it clearer. Providers aren't going to just "pretend", because I guarantee you there will be crazy people just waiting to try to catch these doctors by seeking fake abortions to shut them down.
It's all projection.
If anything history has shown that providers are more likely to hesitate out of fear of reprisal even when it's clearly necessary
Also, they don't get to dictate our bodies
>Which, I can totally get, but have no idea how to make it clearer
Hoping I'm wrong here, but this wording implies you don't have a problem with limits to bodily autonomy. Could you please clarify.
No, I'm personally 100% pro-choice. I just understand how they would *worry* that doctors would lie to give abortions. In fact, I would LOVE to see doctors *en masse* continue providing abortions claiming that any pregnancy "endangers the life of the mother". And medical boards refusing to revoke licenses for those who do.
So, I'm saying I totally *understand* why they would think it's possible. I was just attempting to be a little more diplomatic.
Considering the US has the highest maternal mortality rate of the developed world, it’s really not a stretch to say pregnancy is dangerous to the mothers health. (Im 100% pro choice). Which is why no one should go through pregnancy unless they want to.
A forced pregnancy will make many suicidal, so yes, the life of the mother is endangered.
Unfortunately many/most forced birthers don't believe in mental illness. I am one of those who would commit suicide if forced to carry through with a pregnancy, and I was lucky enough to be sterilized recently. But many women aren't that lucky.
Exactly. It’s the same attitude as welfare. They don’t deny that welfare is good for struggling people, but they don’t think anybody should have welfare accessible because there might be some people that don’t deserve it that will get it.
Nothing says prolife quite like making all potential mothers' lives irrelevant. It's not enough to force these woman to birth babies, they also want to force doctors to kill them whenever the situation arises.
I was at the protest against the overturn at the Wisconsin capital. A woman holding up a picture of a bloody baby told me \*I\* was making \*her\* uncomfortable.
I remember when those idiots came to UW Oshkosh with their gross signs and everyone was yelling at them to get off campus. God, they are horrible.
Is it a kind of self loathing that makes women support or get involved with these groups?
A misplaced sense of moral superiority and desire to control others. But you can bet your ass they will make an exception for themselves or their daughters if they find themselves with an unwanted pregnancy.
They might make the exception for their daughters or they will make them carry the baby to term and give it to another Christian couple for adoption. Then neglecting the mental health of that daughter and the trauma of having of child and being forced to put it up for adoption.
This is what my mother forced my sister to do 20 years ago. It ruined my sisters life.
Many Christian parents don’t even make exceptions for their loved ones. They’ll control and/or disown their own kids for having an abortion before making an exception. Some are not that horrible, thankfully. But the stories I’ve heard make me sick. There’s no hate like Christian love
Just in case you didn't know that the GOP goal is to kill women.
And children, you know, once they’re fully formed and in a classroom. Or on the street. Or in their homes.
And to kill them off in far away wars too.
But not before they traffic and rape the "underage women"!
Might as well throw women on the funeral pyre of their husbands while we're at it.
For the ectopic pregnancy, just wait until sepsis sets in. No big deal. /Sarcasm
That would be even worse than Saudi Arabia or Afghanistan.
Wisconsin is the crazy neighbor that’s ok when you first meet them, and the more you interact and learn about them the more batshit they become. Those of us in Illinois are surrounded by douchebag christian taliban wannabes. They want to to rule this country like ISIS and the taliban do in the Middle East and they’re too dumb to see the correlation between their own skewed beliefs and theirs. Absolutely mental.
Wisconsin is still a "purple" state with lots of progressive and liberal people packing counties like Dane and Milwaukee, but we're captive and unrepresented under the tyranny of some of the worst gerrymandering in the entire country. 72% of Wisconsin voters support nonpartisan redistricting (and that's out of ALL Wisconsin voters, including Republicans), but as with the larger US, what the people want does not matter at all and Republicans work as hard as they can to keep the government they control corrupted and set up drastically unfairly to their own advantage.
Minnesota here, can confirm Wisconsin is full of racist drunks
Wisconsin here, can confirm. Moving to Minnesota. We used to be more liberal than you guys, what the hell happened.
Union busting :(
Canadian here. Since 2016 it has felt like living next to a drug den in a formerly nice neighborhood.
Some of the worst gerrymandering in the US and heavy handed intervention by the Koch Brothers is what happened. It's hell.
"we are so pro-life we'd rather see women die than have full autonomy over their bodies"
\-some idiots in Wisconsin
Something that struck me is one of the activists is quoted as saying they want each fetus to be accorded life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. That's ass backwards, because to give a fetus "liberty" at most stages of gestation would result in death for them anyway. 🤦🏻♀️
Fuck yeah, let them have their wish. Liberate unwanted fetuses!
As someone who grew up in Christian fundamentalism, when approached with circumstances where the life of the mother is at risk, the response was always that’s super rare and most mothers should want to put the life of the child above her own. Heartless assholes. Not that you need a reason besides the fact that it’s your body and life, but a large majority of people who need abortions are already mothers with children dependent on them. But who cares about those kids I guess /s
That’s why there is no reasoning this away… they think a natural death during pregnancy is a blessing from God to leave this sinful world. There is no middle ground, you can’t compromise with that belief, it’s simply going to be a reality in every conservative state gerrymandered enough to arrange voters in the right way.
They want to feel elated when a woman "sacrifices herself" for her greatest calling. It's all about their feelings and is the height of selfishness
The GOP has to call abortion murder so they have something to compare to their actual murders.
I saw The Birdcage for the first time the other week. Nathan Lane’s character, pretending to be a conservative woman, told the conservative congress woman that she thought they should just go ahead and kill the woman trying to seek the abortion, too, just throw it all out in the wash, following the train of thought to it’s logical conclusion Ala A Modest Proposal. The congressman agreed.
This movie was made in the early 90s. And it’s still relevant af.
So, not really pro-life... just anti-women.
Makes sense. To them, a woman who can't pump out babies has no business being alive anyway.
The quote on that organizations page:
“Everything from biology to psychology to common sense indicates that most women are not made to have sex without commitment. It is not good for us.”
So let’s ignore that it’s wrong, the sentiment is that one would only chose to abort if they are single. If you’re married you would never, because you wouldn’t be allowed to by your husband. Because the point is that you’re property. It’s crystal clear.
The Handmaid's Tale wasn't meant to be an instruction manual, but here we are.
"We need to get to the point where we recognize the personhood of everyone from the moment of conception," Appling said.
The fact that people in 2022 unironically call a sperm cell + an egg cell a "person" legitimately baffles my brain. I do not understand.
I am 28 weeks pregnant in Wisconsin with a wanted child and I am so terrified now.
It’s getting harder and harder to not be feeling, thinking, saying “I hope this happens to you. To your daughter. To your wife. To the woman you love most.” I’m just getting more hateful by the day. I’m so tired of “When they low, we go high.”, the democrats need to get abrasive and loud. Fucking play dirty, act like you fucking care about us. Stand the fuck up for us. Beto called out Abbott and his cronies for the people of Texas. I want to see more of that. Call these people out. Living in Texas I’m afraid to reach out to my gov officials bc Id like to work in public health and worried it would bite me in the ass. That being said, I’m considering changing my major so I can get the hell out of here sooner…which is still about 2 years.
What happened to the sanctity of life? I thought life is precious.
They don’t care about you, your baby, or what happens to anyone. They just want to control you, and feel sanctimonious about it.
For "pro life" They definitely do not care if women die. :(
Anyone else scared as hell and STILL being told “that won’t happen”?! I want to scream
What I don’t understand is how people can still be going around acting like this isn’t really all about controlling and hating women. No exceptions? So mother and baby both die, okay whose life did that save exactly? Sure didn’t save that precious fetus, but at least now the woman is dead, too, which is exactly what they get off on.
I mean, if they ever truly cared about the “babies” and not about just owning and killing women then they’d stop blocking every bit of legislation designed to try and feed hungry kids school lunches. We can’t even put any laws or programs in place to protect and feed the children in poverty already living in this country, but we can sure as hell protect those fetuses! Hell yeah brother.
Fuck that, I am moving to Wisconsin and voting blue. They are trying to drive us out and control the electoral college.
"Appling said she's open to the idea of additional public funding for pregnancy resource centers, but she doesn't want to place new requirements on many of the faith-based groups that run the facilities.
"What we don't want to see happen is any of that money come with strings that would tie the hands of the pregnancy resource centers in any way, shape, or form," Appling said."
In other words, "MONEY PLEASE!!!!"
Yet the whole point of the pro life argument is to “keep people alive” ????
Pro life until that fetus grows up and becomes pregnant themselves.
How very "life" of them.
We have the most ridiculous abortion law in iran & it still takes mom's health into consideration. What the fuck
“We’re pro life”
“Also, let the mom die, we don’t care about life”.
There’s so many things wrong with these people.
Can a state be jailed for murder? Fuck around, find out.
They want a higher birth rate but are willing to kill women?
Why are they so concerned about giving liberty to fetus, but not disenfranchised groups of people?
Go ahead and lay down your life for your fetus, **that’s your choice**, I’m good thanks.
So pro life 🙄🙄🙄🙄
Voting is important. You life literally depends on you showing up to vote.
Make sure you’re registered. Be sure the vote.
Rapists can now choose the mother of their kids. Read that again.
WHY? If the mom dies the fetus dies anyway!!??
So many women are going to die because of this. It’s going to be on the news but by then it’ll already be too late.
I have become so ashamed of my country these past few years, this shit sucks
Right here. This is the proof that they are NOT pro-life AT ALL. wtf
I would have died if this were the law in my state.
Uh... life of the mother... so... how does the "baby" live if the mother dies at 20 weeks?
Religious people are literally a disease on this planet.
So "pro life" they actively campaign to LET PEOPLE DIE.
Pro life my ass. They're pro torture.
The UN classifies lack of access to reproductive healthcare as torture for fucks sake.
"Abusive treatment and humiliation in institutional settings; involuntary sterilization; ***denial of legally available health services such as abortion and post-abortion care; forced abortions and sterilizations***; female genital mutilation; violations of medical secrecy and confidentiality in health-care settings, such as denunciations of women by medical personnel when evidence of illegal abortion is found; and the practice of attempting to obtain confessions as a condition of potentially life-saving medical treatment after abortion." - this is all considered TORTURE.
You can find the whole UN document at the bottom of this page, it's a pdf.