By - EclipseSMITE
Champion to Legend is the biggest skill jump you'll ever feel. Enemies hit much harder as you can tell and there are a lot more of them with greater resistances.
Whilst there certainly are meta weapons, Legend is a difficulty where anything can work still. Judging by your levels though I presume you've not hit item level 300 yet. Keep opening chests until your items level up as this affects your damage, cleave and stagger power when equipped. You get 10 power per hero level up to 350 plus a mean average of all your items, taking you up to a max of 650.
Best advice I can give though is make sure you've got a decent headset on to hear where the attacks are coming from. Dodging an attack is ALWAYS the priority. Dodge first, block second, attack third. Holding your block up whilst dodging is a given.
In legend, a majority of players will be wanting to grab all tomes and grims, so the curse resist property will mitigate the max HP loss of Grims.
Other than that, it just takes time. Muscle memory of when to dodge attacks, sound cues of different specials, how to kite each monster differently. Just keep trying! Eventually you'll get more comfortable and then in turn earn higher tier chests for better and better items.
Try to replace your weapons as often as possible when levelling up, get a feel for what you like the most.
I know this was all very generic, but I hope it helps!
Really does thank you dude :)
NP, something I forgot to mention as well since you specified Grail Knight, is that DLC weapons will not drop from regular chests. You have to craft Brettonian swords if you want higher power level ones.
Another good way to quickly increase your power level is crafting. The game tracks the highest power level item you have (not just equipped) for each slot on a character. When you craft for that slot it gives you an item -5/+10 of the average of all those max values (melee, ranged, necklace, charm, trinket).
So the most efficient thing to do is see what slot has the lowest max, craft 10 items, then repeat. Your power level will start jumping until you start getting 300 items.
People tend to be much more relax on Legend, too. You’ll encounter plenty of players ready to help if you ask them.
I am relatively new as well but I've been saving up chests rather than opening them up; is that bad?
Also, the mobs that give me the hardest time are the armoured ones - I heard that if you wanna basic attack you gotta headshot or charge it, and that charging it all the way until it attacks randomly is the same as charging it a bit
Yeah, open all those chests on whichever character you like best currently!
The way chests work, is they can roll +/- a certain level. I think it's +5 to -3 power level, so the more you open, the more positive rolls you will get and slowly the power of each chest increases, netting you better items in the ones you open up after.
And armoured mobs are pretty tough to start out! Each weapon deals with them differently, but they all will generally have a good solution. Heavy attacks are the same if you charge them for 1s or if you let the game do it for you, doing the latter isn't ideal since you lack control over it, you're better off letting go yourself once you're ready to hit.
Keep in mind, the hits aren't directly on the crosshair, that's only there for a generic guide. If the weapon is doing a wide sideways sweep, that's the actual path it's taking, and the first enemy it hits will register where the weapon actually is. This is quite noticeable with Kruber's halberd and a great training weapon for combos due to its difficulty IMO.
Give the training dummy some hits, see the difference between 1 light attack, 2 light attacks, 2 light followed by a heavy etc, a LOT of weapons have complex combos to utilise them in the best ways.
Another attack type which a lot of people don't realise for a while is the push attack. When your guard is up, keep block held down whilst holding attack. This will do a chain push into a quick attack which uses a bit of stamina, amazing on some weapons and crucial on others to perform effective anti-armour.
The default UI for weapons shows you which attacks do good damage / cleave and is a great tool to learn how each one should perform. Best of luck!
I'd say block first then dodge sine you can still block attacks from behind but if you dodge in the wrong direction you usually get hit even if its in the right direction
You should always do both since they're not mutually exclusive. My initial point was to hold your guard up as you block. Aiming to avoid the hit initially, but having your block raised in the situation you just described.
Only time I ever dodge without blocking is if I get an Agility pot in the wastes and I want to crab zoom around like my ancestors once did.
Stay together. If you can't stay together, split into pairs.
Friendly fire is the best kind of fire as it is with friends :)
There is not a best weapon build. Player skill trumps weapon choices, talent selection, and character power level. The curve on player skill goes up and up and up and up.
My suggestion to learn blocking, dodging, positioning and situational awareness is to try some ranked weaves without any friends. When you don't have any teammates or bots to help you out of bad situations, you have to figure out how to deal with everything yourself, and you will ramp up your skills rapidly.
Positioning and map awareness, by the way, are secret keys to good play. When you watch a good player, it's frequently obvious that they have mastery of blocking, pushing, dodging, swapping weapons for best effect, all those movement skills. What's less obvious is how they're avoiding getting attacked from behind, avoiding triggers that spawn patrols or monsters to complicate situations, tagging enemies that they have to keep track of and prioritize, watching for obstacles that will limit their mobility, looking for terrain features that allow them to gain advantage. Don't just watch what good players do, look at where they do it and ask why there.
Dodge, block, learn how to kite, and Killing the specials as soon as you hear them. Once you realize how important dodge and block are as well as when to use push attacks your gonna be cruising through legend. Killing specials while fighting hordes is also something you'll have to get used to.
- There is a sound cue when you're about to be hit by something outside of your field of view
- There is a sound cue when a boss targets you
- Staggering bosses causes them to target you
- Staggering the Chaos Spawn makes it drop a grabbed player
- Block stops damage 360 degrees around you, it just consumes more stamina if outside the weapons listed block radius
- When you're new you want to work on blocking and pushing more often, then at the highest difficulties you want to push as little as possible (except certain builds)
- All enemies have attack patterns you can exploit
- Maulers ( big axe guy) heads are armoured but not the body so if not running a good AP weapon or headshot focused build go for the body
- Until you become super confident don't try to trade with berserkers (plague monks and dual axe chaos) their attacks can't be interrupted so they'll usually drop you. Just block and have your teammates kill them from behind
- You can block while picking someone up - this might be automatic now can't remember
- All dash skills can be used while picking someone up without cancelling it
- Generally don't go invisible as shade to get someone up as they'll continue to beat the downed person and kill them before or just as they get up. Clear around the downed player
- Ladders are the hardest bosses in the game
- Jump to shoot over the front liners heads. Alternatively if you're not Bardin and you're getting clipped a lot even after **politely** asking your teammates to watch their fire, you can crouch.
- Curse resistance is the stat that reduces the amount of max HP you lose when getting grimoires.
- If you are wounded/greyed if you heal another player with a medkit it will clear your wounded state for some reason.
- Your career skill is there to be used not saved
- Different attacks within the same weapon can have different armour piercing and/or stagger profiles. Royale with Cheese has a ton of good guides including the most effective combos by weapon for each situation.
You could play the tanky classes like Footknight, Iron Breaker, Unchained etc, but you could form terrible habits that drag you down when you play another class. So I don’t recommend this too much, but it is an option if you want to jump into legend.
If you know something is going to hit you, block then dodge sideways. Do not trade hits. Doing both the block and dodge adds another layer of defense which is vital to minimise hp lost. Dodging sideways is preferred over dodging backwards. This is because when you dodge, you turn off the enemy’s tracking so the enemy will attack at your previous position. If you dodge backwards there is a chance that the enemy will still hit you with their running attacks, but if you dodge sideways they will always miss. Dodging backwards is only really useful for kiting bosses and putting distance between you and the enemy.
After you got practice with block + dodge sideways, try to add a push after you dodge. This will give you a brief window of safety to swing once or twice depending on your weapon and what type of attack you use. After the attacks, repeat block + dodge sideways then push. Note that this only effective against hordes and mixed hordes. Keep in mind that you might not stagger elite enemies when you push, so you revert back to block + dodge and observe the enemy’s attack pattern to know when its safe to sneak in attacks when they are focused on you.
When a boss attacks you during a horde, you protect the person the boss is focused on by dealing with the horde (unless of course you can delete the bosses hp with your ult). All bosses can be kited to a certain extent but only the rat ogre can completely be stun locked. There are videos on youtube that explain how to kite bosses. I recommend Core, jtcLIVE and Wetmagic for educational videos and other content as well as chocoB for some amazing solo cataclysm and beyond runs (only if you want to of course XD)
The meta does not matter (unless you are doing some modded stuff, then maybe it matters). A weapon you know how and like to use is always going to be stronger in your hands than a weapon that you don’t like to use. The combat is meant to be fluid and enjoyable, if its not fluid then you will get hit here and there which can eventually kill you.
And the most important thing! Have fun! This is an incredibly enjoyable game where everything is viable in the official realm, don’t let anyone tell you otherwise!
Is this, per chance a template for helping noobs? I occasionally read the tips in case I find out something useful and U feel like I've read this already. All good tips by the way.
Its not a template. I wrote it from scratch from my experiences :). I guess most people just have the same experiences and get their info from the same or similar sources. Like royale with cheese guides.
Must be. It makes sense that the tips would end up very similar and overlap.
Hope you didn't take any offese to that since none was intended. Have a nice day.
I wasn’t offended, you were just asking a question and I answered :)
Legend can be considered endgame (maybe beginner lvl endgame) so i would recommend to level your chars up to at least lvl 25 and to grind for equipment close to 300 power before jumping into legend.
Prioritize not dying over getting max dps (in terms of playstyle, not nessecaryly your build i mean)
Stay with your team.
If you are a beginner, block while dodging to have a 'safety net' should you misjudge the enemies tracking/timing.
Fight close to a wall (no enemies from behind).
Don't push into chokepoints (to avoid hyperdensity).
When a monster spawns prioritize specials then elites and trash and THEN the monster. Monsters take relatively long to kill, but a monster alone is no threat. A monster with other stuff however is.
When possible, try to fight at places with short lines of sight (to avoid long range assassin leaps and storm casts) but with enough space to move around if you can't hold your line.
Your positioning relative to your team depends on your role. Tanks and brawlers shoud engage hordes and elites, while snipers should stay in the backline looking for specials (still swing at the horde, just a little bit further back.) Your 'role' isn't always 100% decided by your carreer/build, but also by your teammates. For example when you have lots of melee dps but nobody who can/wants to snipe specials, an ironbreakee with handgun can also be a sniper.
I want to add that looking at which walls are safte to fight by is also important. In some places enemies can drop diwn on you, which is very dangerous. So it's good to try to pay attention which places are safe and which are not, which cones down to memorizing it over time.
As others have stated, the jump from Champ to Legend is the biggest difficulty jump in the game.
Learning to dodge dance is of paramount importance, a tip I like to give is to bind a separate button in your keybinds to dodging alone (I use mouse 4, side mouse button) you can be fine with jump but often times in a panicky situation you will be spamming jump to dodge and you will actually jump which can get you killed, if you have a dedicated dodge button this won't ever happen.
Also having a good headset helps, you will hear a big woosh when you are about to be hit from behind, this should trigger you to hold your block and try to dodge out, this becomes second nature with time.
>it feels like going from Champion to Legend I've just been.... dying?
That's just Legend/Cata for you. The bots do well enough on Champion, but as soon as you go Legend you're basically by yourself if you don't have anyone joining you.
>I have BW and GK to 21 each, Handmaiden to 10 and a 5 Sigmar boy lol
Trust me on this one, you'll have a much easier time with lvl 30. It will also help if you actually go with the good weapons instead of the lesser tiers (you really want armor pierce for example)
Overall, i'd tell you to just learn to dodge/parry attacks a use your ears. It's a pretty big difficulty spike but you'll get use to it.
So much to say, but pretty much. Keep playing and you will learn. Blocking and attacking are core elements of the game.
There are also discord where you can find people to play with.
I might be on in about 6-7 hours if you want some pointers.
Cheers and gl with the rat slaying!
You're hit trading too much on Champion that will down you on Legend. Grail Knight is good but Merc can be safer to play with his career skill and a ranged weapon. You can't hit everyone in front of you in a horde with most weapons so that's why you dodge/push during hordes (and watching for enemies in back doing running attacks). You'll learn attack patterns.
Use whatever builds, some have breakpoints in mind for higher difficulties. Go ahead and use that twitch build. Don't stress about rerolling properties for it yet. Level one character to max to get 300 item lvl crafting(open chests) and use those for everyone else.
You probably should stay champion the time to level up some char 35 and Gear them to 600-650 power before going to legend.
If you have some favourite weapon, paire them well. Choisie your weapon to compliment each other. One for multi target and one to deal with specific target with armor for exemple.
Look which thp talent is best for the melee weapon you use.
Don't rush every mob, look around, find a good position and while fighting be aware of possible elit and special, they are the most important.
In other side, boss is NOT priority target, kill everything else before focusing boss. To many run wipe in legend or cata cuz people focus boss ignoring the reste.
Boss are big and so easy to keep in eyes while dealing with the reste.
If boss on you don't panic pull him a bit away from team the time they clean.
All boss can be solo if the team clear trash.
Take your time, you will never stop to learn in this game, and it's fun !
If you can get a full lobby, ask to do champion deeds. It’s a little harder then champion but shouldn’t be as much as regular legend, you will get twice the number of chests too.
Well beside what the other comments said, and just getting better at the games, your characters' levels also play a big part. A lot of people don't even play legend with people under level 30, so upgrading your weapons and leveling up should help you. Learn where the books are on each map and try to take them whenever you play.
Most important thing is to have good situation awareness, know were your teammates are and were enemies are, few thing hurt as much as trying to dodge a stormvermin overhead and having a slave bodyblock you to the side.
Also try to keep you team moving foward in most situations.
The biggest thing I remember going from Champ to Legend is learning to always check behind me (and listen for something behind me). It seemed that every single fight, a clanrat would appear at my back to stab me, and at Legend that hurts a lot!
As other people have said, practicing dodge, block, and push to buy yourself space will help. Depending on my weapon, I may use a push every 3rd or 4th action against a dense horde.
Your bots are incredibly underpowered for Legend. The lack of power is keeping them from being effective and on Legend only a few hits will down them quickly.
Even with them all at 35, it's not an easy difficulty, a run can go from everyone at max to dead within a few moments . The right (wrong) timing for specials can end a run and is probably where most of your runs will end.
I would look up royale with cheese, he has a ton of incredibly detailed character builds and guides. There are for sure some more/less powerful weapons and builds but try them and see which ones you like. Personally I see no reason to ever use a 1 handed hammer when you can use two but to each their own.
If you are having some particular difficulty vs armored there are armor piercing weapons that helped me out early on before I learned how to deal with them properly.
The bots weapons and skills are based on the hosts builds, since you are new your chars are weak so you are better off joining someone else’s game rather than hosting.
As others have said, the weapon power system isn’t super clear but you want to get all your items to 300 power level asap. Salvage duplicates and low power items for crafting materials.
#1 most important trait is curse resistance and you can only get it on your charm. It will make you lose less health when your team picks up grims.
Personally I learned in iron breaker, he’s probably the most forgiving because you can get hit and not take any damage every few seconds. Listen for the audio que that you are about to be hit, block and dodge are your friend. Shove can buy you some breathing room to get some kills.
"Around elf watch yourself".
In time you'll understand.
I always suggest the first class people play should be an Ironbreaker. They’re so tough that it gives you a lot more wiggle room to learn
Your character level affects your power, which is important.
I'd suggest to go back to Champion and get 2 of the characters you play the most up yo 35 before playing Legend. And, while on champion, try to take as little hits as possible while still killing things. The goal is not to die in the level and after that also not to get downed at all.
My tip would be; once you're comfortable with you career level and want to start increasing your own skill, go into modded realm and do true solo runs (or duo if you have a friend.
You could also do that in the official realm too(allows you to still keep gaining levels and low tier chests for extra trash loot to salvage), set a game to private and just run with bots, not relying too much on them, but using them as a safety cushion.
The best times I've had, was speed running Against the grain and The Screaming Bell with a friend. Really taught me a lot about how to look after myself, dodging and all the other good stuff.
Just keep at it! While some weapons feels subpar, I think you can use whatever you like on legend if you can play well with it (maybe even Cata).
As some other people mentioned, the jump from Champ to Legend is quite a big step (even Vet to Champ to be honest, since I used to play Veteran only).
Just try to stay alive and you will get there eventually if you keep at it.
A side note, playing with a low level on Legend isn't much appreciated I guess haha but some people don't mind much. Gettin to level 30 will help you tons