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JRJ_14

7K on a 1500 sq ft house. Total rewire. Did not need to upgrade panel and had good access above/below so minimal patch work. No issues in finding insurance prior to replacement. Good luck


trimetrov

Have partial K&T, no issues with it in my 12 years in the home. Travelers insured us with no additional premium. It’s way more common than you think. It is good to know where those circuits are, and pay attention to what you’re plugging in.


Urban_Disaster

>It is good to know where those circuits are, and pay attention to what you’re plugging in. This right here. Our entire second floor is K&T (lights, outlets, switches). The only items plugged into the outlets are computer/phone chargers, lamps, and whatever other small stuff we have. Our electrician assured us those are no problem for K&T as the load is far lower than what things were years back. If insurance companies weren't willing to insure K&T homes, half of MA would be uninsured.


BackgroundSimple3314

Huge job for a big old Victorian. 20k, without power on certain floors for about two months. Everyone else here seems to have had it easier, so maybe it’ll be that way for you.


child_of_air

I know at least some of it has been replaced. Hopefully most of it!


slowloris01

We had the same question back in January! 3k finished square feet on an 1850 Greek revival in northern New England. We just did the downstairs (upstairs will be later this year or next) and it was about $15k for the rewire of downstairs, but that also included some things like adding lighting in rooms, adding outlets in the kitchen, and adding interconnected smoke detectors to code. If we'd just done the downstairs K&T replacement it would have been closer to 7-10k I think. We found this in the inspection (among many other things including plumbing issues, framing issues, etc) and ended up getting $30k off our initial bid. We bought from an estate and the family had no idea how much systems work the house needed...they thought it was all cosmetic updates 🙄. I would definitely encourage you to try to negotiate depending on what else you find because it is NOT a cheap fix. We didn't have an issue getting the house insured before the work was done, though, but we are probably paying more money than we would with a new house!


child_of_air

Thank you, this is excellent advice. I will do just that!


slowloris01

Good luck!! It's been a lot of work to get it all done but totally worth it for the peace of mind.


pdw1992

I have a smaller house of ~850 sq ft (1600 with the unfinished basement). Part of it had modern wiring into the kitchen, but the rest was K&T. I'm going off memory, but I want to say it cost about $1.5k or $2k. That included some sweat equity on my part which made it a bit cheaper than it otherwise would have been.


child_of_air

When was this?


pdw1992

2019 in late February/early March. Washington State.


child_of_air

Ah. Yeah, I suspect it would cost more because of....whatever these days.


lordofduct

I recently purchased an 1830ish (age technically unknown) farm house in New England. The property had a fair amount of knob & tube through out as well as an outdated panel. There was also some unrelated stuff to electric, such as the septic tank was ruptured. We had them knock some money off the top and we hooked into city sewer and hired an electrician. 9K it cost me to upgrade the panel to modern 200amp, rewire a good deal of the house (we had gutted the kitchen as well as a bedroom off its side, and rewired everything when doing it). We also sent 100 amp's out to the barn through a buried pipe. This was recently, and was fairly extensive (i.e. more than just a rewire of a house). So I'd expect less than what we paid. I'm reading people saying 2-3K, I bet that's on the low side of things. I'm going to bet around 5-6K, especially since I'm willing to bet you're going to want a panel upgrade to (that's just a guess, based on that a 200 year old house with K&T probably has an old panel). \[edit\] Oh, I want to add, when I had mine done. Because I had the time to spare I cut a deal with my electrician to make my sight low-priority for a discount. Basically they didn't bang it out all in a week. We spread it across a few weeks and they'd stop in between jobs when they had a down day or something. Probably saved me like 3K in the process. I'm betting some people are scratching their heads as to how I got 2 panels, a complete rewire, and buried line, and a new SER from the street for sub 10k. Oh it also helped that I did most of the digging myself (I have a small tractor). My property in general is kind of a project home. I'm still doing all sorts of work on the property. I didn't get into a 200 year old house to just live in, I like to build stuff. I only hired out the sewer/electric since we had to hook into city and well, I'd rather a pro have to talk to them.... I don't do well with officials/government...


child_of_air

Well, I don't have a tractor.....so, I'll probably have to pay quite a bit more than that.


lordofduct

Do you plan on burying a wire out to a barn? My point is that I landed at this price doing things MORE than what you'd need. So my price is likely going to be higher than what you'd need. I did: 1) Rewire of K&T (same as you) 2) Panel upgrade indoors (you may need) 3) SER upgrade from street to house (unless you plan on increasing your amperage, likely not needed) 4) Buried SER to barn (you won't need, this is what I dug myself) 5) Subpanel install in barn (you won't need) Of the 5 things I had done, you only need 2. I paid 9K for all 5 things, though that 9K is probably 3K cheaper than if I didn't get the discoutns... so 12K really. But I got a lot more done than you. So I cut that in half to estimate around 5-6K.


child_of_air

Our barn on this Colonial was removed long ago, which kind of makes me sand. But after 200 years most barns start to have structural problems when they go unmaintained. I have no idea about anything else though, as I have only seen the house once.


lordofduct

Yeah, that's one of the first things I did moving in. A lot of maintenance on the barn.


bambam1317

$13k for 2,800 sqft - one to one replacement of outlets and fixtures. Had to do it because of the low service so didn't matter if insurance wanted it or not.


child_of_air

Yeah, I would probably have to do the same if the K&T is hiding where I think it is hiding.


More-Mycologist9485

I recently closed on a 1920 Foursquare(ish) in MA. ~2200 sq. Mostly knob and tube. Got my estimate today of 14k for re-wiring, adding hard-wired smoke detectors, adding ceiling lights in all rooms and additional outlets in all rooms. We got the home at 11k under asking and got 5k in closing credits because we negotiated the knob and tube removal. We were unable to get a full estimate during negotiations because the electrician needed a partner with them to accurately locate all the knob and tube and we didn't have the time. If it helps, the realtor sent photos to the seller's agent during these negotiations. I am also applying for the 0% Heat Loan through the Mass Saves program. Check to see if your town/city/state might offer programs like this if you'd prefer to finance the project. MA also offers grant money for this based on income. And no issues with finding homeowners insurance. Part of the home was upgraded so the knob and tube did not come up. Good luck!


child_of_air

Thank you. Yes we will certainly be asking for credits!


Lehrling7

We had it in about 1/3 of our house and it was combined with a bunch of other electrical work. The itemized portion for the replacement was around $3k (total work of ~10k including panel replacement and a bunch of other misc stuff). This didn’t include any patch/painting work, but they were able to keep it minimal and we’re careful with our plaster walls. (Edit- 1/3 of our < 2000 SF 2 story)


roobinsteen

It's pretty common in old houses that haven't had major work done in the recent past to still have bits of live knob and tube still in use. I'm a home inspector in Philly (a city full of old houses), and I see active knob and tube in houses literally all the time. It's typically still live in places where there hasn't been a need to re-wire, or where it's tough to access; feeding top/second floor lights and outlets, stuff like that. If you have it, it's time to rewire, basically. Sometimes it's in OK shape, but sometimes it's not, too. Plus, it's not grounded. I've rewired two homes with K&T myself.


OkQuiet2444

$10k rewiring the house, under 1500 sq ft 1916 Craftsman bungalow


RedDeerDesign

The house inspector for our house only required that we replace the K&T that was exposed. There were only one stretch in the attic that needed to be addressed. It was an easy fix with the electrician putting the wires into a box and running the rest of the line with Romex. Caveat . . . this was 26 years ago and may not fly now.


Critical-Series

I’ve yet to have trouble getting homeowners insurance with 3+ homes that have knob and tube. There’s nothing inherently dangerous about knob and tube wiring. If it’s frayed or has been spliced by a DIY homeowner then that’s where you get problems.


roobinsteen

>There’s nothing inherently dangerous about knob and tube wiring I see this opinion a lot on this sub, and I just don't agree with it at all. I've rewired 2 homes with K&T personally, and a partial rewire on a third. Knob and tube wiring/installation is definitely really *cool* and required a lot of time and skill to install correctly, but even comparing new to new, knob and tube wiring was not even close to as safe as modern wiring. I'll copy and paste a portion of my response to someone else in this thread: we know more about electricity now. K&T wiring inherently has no grounding. Also, sharing neutrals between circuits was commonplace, as was doing open-air splices hidden anywhere. Also, the way that 3-way switches used to be wired back then would often use a switched neutral, leaving the terminals on the light fixture energized even when the light was off. Can shock you when changing the bulb.


ImALittleTeapotCat

Insurance will cost more. Some companies don't insure k&t. K&t isn't inherently bad. It's old, may be degraded, may have been messed with, and likely has too much load on it. That's where all the risk comes from.


roobinsteen

>It's old, may be degraded, may have been messed with, and likely has too much load on it. Right, that's the point. >K&t isn't inherently bad While I agree that the way K&T wiring was installed originally is really cool and fairly ingenious...we know more about electricity now. K&T wiring *inherently* has no grounding. Also, sharing neutrals between circuits was commonplace, as was doing open-air splices hidden anywhere. Also, the way that 3-way switches used to be wired back then would often use a switched neutral, leaving the terminals on the light fixture energized even when the light was off. Can shock you when changing the bulb. So yes, I'd say that there are things about K&T wiring that are inherently bad, even if it was brand new.


child_of_air

Right.


Urban_Disaster

Our carrier didn't even ask about K&T when we got our policy. Our home is about 70% romex, 30% knob & tube. The romex is in all exposed/visible areas (basement, attic), bathrooms, and the kitchen. K&T supplies the majority of our fixtures, lights, and all outlets on our second floor. Our electrician was not concerned in the slightest about the active K&T within the uninsulated walls.


child_of_air

Well you got lucky. My insurance has already asked.


Urban_Disaster

Did you go through an independent agent when you purchased your policy? They will know the carriers most willing to write your home


child_of_air

You mean an insurance broker? No. But if you read my original post, you'll know that we didn't know it had knob and tube until later. It wasn't disclosed originally, which is bullshit. Not everyone can get coverage with knob and tube. Again, you got lucky.


ceerupt

how many sq ft is the knob and tube running. how bigs the house


child_of_air

Unknown. It didn't say in the disclosures so I'm waiting to find out more from the listing agent.


THE_BARCODE_GUY

We had it removed from our old place and if memory serves me it was ~$3000 plus the cost to patch the holes in the plaster and refinish


Actuarial_type

House was full of k&t when we bought. State Farm gave me no trouble insuring it but did say I’d pay a higher premium. Cost to remove it will vary widely depending on how much there is, and how easy it is to access. They may have to tear out a fair amount of plaster. For what it’s worth, I’m in Kansas. We had the basement and first floor fully re-wired for like $3k. The second floor will cost more because it’s harder to get at, hoping to tackle that this year and be done with electrical.


Therichuationroom

What electrician if you don’t mind me asking? In the KC area by chance?


Actuarial_type

Hemel Electric in Lawrence. I’m a big fan, they have been really great to work with on my old house.


tinfoilcastles

We went through this last year, in MA. We were truthful in our insurance applications, worked with brokers to shop around, and could not get conventional coverage. Our only option was the MA Fair Plan and it was pricey. We did a full rewire which took 3 weeks and cost around $20-$25k for 3,000 sqft. Thankfully the contractor was great and made minimal holes in the plaster, then patched them all. I’m excited to start shopping for new insurance!


child_of_air

Wow! That's pricey.


tinfoilcastles

It was, but to put it in perspective our first quote was $46k! We also did everything - street service, panel upgrade plus a second panel, grounding, and replaced every light in the house. I’m sure there’s even more I’m forgetting. We also found that a lot of the electricians we had out wouldn’t even give us a quote, they just didn’t want the job. So glad it’s done, it was so stressful.


child_of_air

Sorry but I really feel like because you live in MA, you're getting screwed. Everything seems so much more expensive there!


tinfoilcastles

You’re not wrong, its pretty expensive living. Thankfully we got a deal on the house, so that helps. Good luck with your place!


child_of_air

Thanks!


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child_of_air

Yeah, that would make me uncomfortable as I am not an electrician. I'd probably electrocute myself.


g1ggg

Cost us like 15k, but that included some extra work. Minimal damage to the walls. Its pricey.


mostlygray

For our place when I was a kid, the old wiring was all easily accessible (old log house). It was a relatively minor job to do the re-wire and put in a new panel. It would be more irritating in an old Victorian.


child_of_air

It's an 1810 Cape, may be earlier but I don't think so based on the Hearth and a few other things.


mostlygray

That's old enough that it's possible a lot of wires are exposed. They could be running in a chase which is easy to fix. I've seen wires run behind the baseboard which saves damaging a lot of walls. If the basement is open, the wires should be running through there bare. If the wires are inside the walls, that's where it's more work.


SnooCauliflowers5664

3 family, 6 bedrooms, 3 kitchens. $1700 to remove what was left, but it was just two circuits in the basement


ResponseNo6375

I’m surprised you’re even getting to the question of insuring K&T. When I was looking for my home, if K&T or mold were mentioned in the inspection report, goodbye financing


child_of_air

Well, apparently they had insurance before, with the K&T. Also, I've never had a house with K&T before. In my last one it had been removed in the 80's. ETA: Nobody will insure us apparently so we have to fix it if we want to move forward.