By - regian24
If never on bottom button then why does it exist?!
Because some fat ass king thousands of years ago couldn’t button his bottom button and now we all do it out of tradition.
well, "thousands" is a bit of a stretch... just like he stretched that jacket lmao
[more like a little over 100 years](https://www.businessinsider.com/suit-button-rules-bottom-top-2017-3)
*A million-billion centuries in the past*
Four-score and before your mom was born-ago
Four-score and before your mom was *a whore
"EONS AGO!" -Nines
I thought this was a joke but TIL.
Fuck this royalist tradition im doing my 3rd button from now on
Yeah will remember every time to flex on that fat prick.
TIL I’m “really fat”
Yeah, it's amazing that back than he was considered abnormally fat
Not even that long ago, look back to The Simpsons, S07E07 King Size Homer from 1995, the premise of the episode is that Homer wants to get SO INSANELY FAT that he can be considered disabled and force the power plant to let him work from home. The level of "Insane weight so as to be considered disabled" was....300lbs.
I mean he's clearly obese. Fat people being the norm is 100% a modern phenomena. It used to just be an American thing but now it's spreading.
If you went back to his day and told him that poor people in the future are so fat that they die from gluttony diseases he'd be like, "WTF are you wearing?"
Whatever the fuck I just read can we please make it stop now
Honestly we should just put a stop to suits as the end-all be-all of "formal attire", silly antiquated rules and all.
So once again, the blame is on colonizers. I’m only buttoning the bottom button from now on.
A long long time ago, on a galaxy…right here actually…
Cuz we all know if he did up that button, that button would fly off faster then a bullet
Fetch me the plate stretcher.
That’s why people stand for the Hallelujah Chorus. King George II stood during it, but no one really knows why. I like the theory that he had gas. Now everyone has to stand up in the middle of a concert because of fartin George.
I didn't once and people thought I was crazy disrespectful but I stood up all day at work and just didn't have it in me that day.
Bring me my jacket stretcher!
You'd think a king could afford a properly fitting suit or armor.
3rd buttons, on an open field!
Tradition is only peer pressure from the dead
This stopped me in my tracks. Spot on and well said.
Please, someone award this quasar!
I button it because I can, fuck the king
That fatass ruined suits for me in that case. As a skinny guy, it's hard to look anything but disheveled without the bottom button. You'll get called out on it regardless so might as well conform and leave it. FYI, since unbuttoning the bottom is an anglo-american invention we shouldn't really act like this chart is universal law
Wear it with pride. A man in a suit is hot. A man in a suit who has a personal touch to his style and doesn't conform blindly to fashion trends is extremely hot.
It’s not the button it’s the suit then. You need a different cut or smaller/skinnier suit. The suit is cut to sit without the bottom buttoned so it won’t sit right if it is.
Well it was the hardest button to button
*I wonder if anyone will get that reference*
Yeah this is a bullshit tradition. Having your shirt and tie peek out of the bottom of your jacket looks sloppy and I’ll die on that hill.
If we took away the bottom button. Then the next button up would be the bottom button. And we NEVER button the bottom button, so we have to take that one away. Next thing you know, no buttons.
the next beltless trench coat
I HAD TO BREAK DA WINDAH
You have to jiggle the handle!
I have no idea where this come from but I applaud your boldness.
Is this the future you wanted?! *Is this the fashion statement you wanted to make?!* ***WAS IT ALL WORTH IT?!***
Well, two-button suits *do* exist
They do, but the button they drop is the “sometimes” button, not the “never” button. Just like in a 3-button suit, two-button suits are made intending for the bottom button to never be used
How do I make this known that this is the best thing I’ve ever read?
A previous response you got is correct. A king wasn't able to button up the last one because his gut was too big. Some say it is out of respect that the other nobles decided not to button their 3d button up, but really, if the KING can't do it...are you a lowly noble gonna flex on that in front of him?
Lots of weird fashion comes from the royal courts around the world. An example is the feet binding in China. It came about because one of the Emperors really loved his concubine that walked a little weird. The other concubines, thought if they could walk weird, the king would love them too. One thing led to another, and it became foot binding which causes you to walk weird.
Sometimes the King wouldn't even mind and notice the nuance, but once the first person doesn't do it out of respect, monkey see monkey do and now we do too
King George II had gout, so sitting for long periods of time was uncomfortable for him. When Handel's Messiah dragged on for two hours, George had to stand up near the end to ease the discomfort. Now, ~275 years later, if you attend the orchestra, everyone still stands for the Hallelujah Chorus. Because a king had gout.
As a gout sufferer, this can't be true. The last thing I want to do during an attack is stand!
And that's why we raised our younger generations to question bullshit rather than go along with it.
If a tradition can't provide a better reason than something this stupid, it's just not worth keeping. Even if it's seemingly harmless like this one, it still causes some people to be oddly hostile each other about this arbitrary crap and is used as a tool of mindless classism.
Traditions are just peer pressure from dead people
Oh, living people definitively like to peer pressure tradition on us, too.
> Lots of weird fashion comes from the royal courts around the world.
Or, most famously, the Spanish lisp.
That's [a myth.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phonological_history_of_Spanish_coronal_fricatives?wprov=sfla1)
In addition to the king thing, because you're expected to not use the bottom button suit jackets are now cut with that in mind, so if you did use it the jacket would be uncomfortable and hang weird.
Lots of fashion forward companies are just making single button jackets and they look really good for skinnier people
Exactly! Came here to say why the fuck is that button there if it’s not supposed to be used? Fashion people are such morons!
It's a small "class test" bullshit invented by rich assholes to see what economic class you belong to. There are many such tests, so many that you will inevitably fail at one or another.
It's similar to judging someone by their shoes, or phone, dietary habits, behavior at restaurants etc.
If someone has bad behavior with the wait staff at a restaurant I totally judge them. Judge them right to hell.
I meant more like, if someone has grown up poor they may not be familiar with how "fine" dining works. Like, a restaurant brings you warm towels and you don't know what they're for. I was scoffed at for not being knowing what compote was the first time I saw the term and didn't know how to pronounce it.
There was a radio show where a woman gave a story of growing up poor and describes the first time in her 20s that she was asked how she wanted her burger cooked at a restaurant and it confused her, but all her middle class friends had already had that knowledge.
There are a myriad of life experiences, some times innocuous, that divide the classes, that are taken for granted by those who lived them growing up but stick out when they notice the abscence in others. Often, those differences are purposefully cultivated by the upper class to further divide them from those below, and it only gets worse the further up you go. This stupid button "rule" is one of those things. It's arbitrary and nonsensical, but there are those who know and those who don't and that's why it's considered important.
I'm very happy to always wear clean, presentable, and polished black work boots with my suits, in part so those types pick up on my "fuck you" before they get started on their own.
I hope the rest of your outfit is well-fitted and appropriate level of formal to match the boots, otherwise they’ll look ridiculous.
I break this rule all the time. Maybe because I'm too thin?
Came here for this comment. Fuck it. I paid for it, I'll button it.
Almost makes that extra button seem incredibly stupid.
It's just a tradition started because a king was too fat for his suits
I'm not going to be peer-pressured by some fat, dead, royal bastard.
Thanks I am using this.
I have a busy body sister and this is a perfect response to her if I show up in a suit with all buttons on.
Suit coats are cut to have the two sides hang in a way that doesn’t work if the bottom button is done up. Just looks bunchy, don’t do it.
They make the suits this way because of the tradition. Im sure we could make suits where you could button the bottom button and it looks good. But nobody makes suits like that.
[They're called double-breasted suits](https://www.lktailor.com/images/products/db-suit-1.jpg).
"You jelly how good i look with all buttons on?"
Bet you he was inbred too
No, you’re thinking about the Earl of Sandwich.
Whoa why you gotta make it personal?
Ever wear a tie?
Did he have an armor stretcher?
Idk, but he had a sex chair
Gotta start buttoning that one to flex on obese syphilitic aristocracy.
Let them eat this dick.
Imagine the dozens of pounds of plastic that have been used to add useless buttons.
It’s the male fashion equivalent of fake pockets in women’s clothing.
Well, sadly my suit coat also has fake pockets
Are they fake pockets, or real pockets that were sewn shut? Some suit makers sew jacket pockets shut for aesthetics/to not have them accidentally rip during transit. If it's an actual pocket, then you can just cut the string holding it shut without any real ramifications.
Upvoted because I feel like a lot of people don’t know this about suits. Took me awhile to find out myself.
They should teach this in home ec... pockets and the back openings on jackets may be sewn shut so they stay flat for display and should be removed, tags loosely stitched on the sleeves of some coats aren't meant to be permanent decorations, some day you might buy wool products, with before and after pictures of washing them ..
bold of you to assume home ec is a thing that's taught anymore
Any proper suit salesman would take care of that for you. You’re supposed to open the vents, remove the tags, remove the brand on the sleeve, open the pockets, and if needed tailor it.
Same thing with girls pockets on clothes. People don’t know this but if you cut it open, there’s a pocket in there. You HAVE to try it! /s
Oh totally, but I've definitely cut some open and found my wallet shifting towards the tail of my coat. Not all stitched pockets are real.
They may not be fake—most suit-pockets are sewn closed (maybe to keep them flat for display?) but if you use a stitch-cutter you can make them functional.
They're sewn shut so they don't crumple and make creases in shipping. Same reason why the vents at the back of the suit coat are sewn down. People not cutting the suit coat vets open is one of my biggest pet peeves. [This is what I'm talking about.](https://www.reddit.com/r/medicalschool/comments/75klsm/fashion_psa_for_the_interview_trail_open_your/)
Realistically its probably in the hundreds or thousands of tonnes of plastic.
If you really want to call have what's now called a [paddock cut](https://www.keikari.com/english/the-paddock-cut/) made by a skilled tailor. The last King Edward rocked them, as did JFK.
Pretty much everything you buy that's ready to wear or even (made to measure)/semi-bespoke is going to be constructed with the assumption that that bottom button isn't going to be buttoned - and will look off if it is.
Because Edward the VII did over a hundred years ago, we all still have to do it?
Suits are cut for it to be unbuttoned now. If you button it, the suit won’t sit as it should
Remember kids, tradition is just peer pressure from dead folk.
You can buy one-button jackets if you like
All fashion "rules" and the whole idea of fashion in general for that matter is incredibly stupid.
Wear whatever you want, however you want.
Yah just dont buy three button jackets. Two button always looks better anyways
I agree, but you don’t button the bottom on a two button jacket either
Same for ties, right? What’s the point of them? Traditional fashion, I suppose.
What if it only has 2 buttons?
Button the top when standing, unbotton when sitting. Bottom is still never buttoned.
So for 3 buttons the top is standing only?
Don't do up the bottom. Just don't do it
Modern jackets are cut in such a way that the bottom buttons are decorative, and buttoning them up will cause the material to pull in weird ways. It's more uncomfortable (unless your jacket is too big) and causes weird looking pulling in the fabric.
Is this what they mean when they sing "the hardest button to button"?
Push the button.
Nah that song is about those mini buttons that hold the tips of your shirt collar down
If I paid for a button I'm using a goddamn button.
Heard this in George Costanza’s voice
F yeah. When it is cold all buttons get buttoned, and I dare someone to tell me I should be uncomfortable because they don’t like my buttons!
I distinctly remember in grade school i had a coat with a hood, but the hood looked kinda weird, it was one of those ones you can tuck in or hide so it was a little lame. Anyway, one of the coldest days we were outside and one kid made fun of me for wearing it and i said to him "what, should I just freeze then? Would you rather just be cold if it was you" and this MFer said "Yes."
Idk why but that always stuck with me, that some people would rather be miserable than look a little ridiculous.
I have a friend who is always dressed very nice.
One day he had to have a surgery on a foot and needed to wear sneakers for a few weeks after.
He said "Are you always that comfortable in your shoes?" and then went back to wearing uncomfortable shoes although he was still in pain from the surgery.
Sounds like your friend needs to find more comfortable shoes.
I have boots and dress shoes that are far more comfortable than any sneakers I've ever owned. Find me a sneaker with lambskin lining and memory foam cushion...
I wear formal shoes at work and they are just extremely comfortable. As a teacher I have to stand the whole day but also want to look good.
I'd never give them up for sneakers
People are so weird. I just can't bring myself to care that much.
It started as a dumb thing bc of a fat king but these days jackets are designed and cut with the expectation that the bottom button won't be used so the jacket won't hang right or look good when you button it.
The cost is also like less than a penny unless you're paying for handsewn button holes and shit.
If you don’t know you are streets behind
Pfft I’m a level 5 Laser Lotus.
Are you sure you're not in a cult?
This is recently one of my favourite Community jokes.. I was just reading some P.G. Wodehouse from ~ 1920s (Jeeves & Wooster) and came upon "Streets ahead". So not only did Peirce try to claim credit for a saying he clearly didn't invent, but no one else in that room would likely have read anything old enough to contain it. And, like myself, probably very few of the show's viewers.
That’s amazing. I appreciate your sharing that tidbit. Just another reason Community is such a great show.
They're just jealous - T.A
When I was taught this, I thought that once I grew up, I'd be wearing a suit all the time at work.
At it turned out - home office aside - I usually show up to work in jeans and got a reputation as a fancy dresser just for wearing polo shirts most of the time. Haven't worn a suit in... almost a decade now?
Man, am I happy to live in the 21st century.
THEN WHY IS IT THERE
It’s a test.
The British have spent centuries perfecting the way to sus out peasants.
It's like male nipples
It's the belly button
Arbitrary sartorial rules are funny and seem funnier the more outdated they become. Like, if our grandfathers were seeing this diagram they would say “yeah” but myself and all the much younger people here on Reddit instantly go “why though”. Not unlike Obama and his nice looking tan suit.
This "rule" is a bit different than stuff like "no hats inside".
These days jackets are designed and cut with this expectation in mind and they don't hang correctly or look good when you do button the bottom button.
But then why do they even include the last button if you're not expected to use it?
It's really as simple as [one button](https://www.instagram.com/p/CWOVNlPIZ9Y/), [two button](https://www.instagram.com/p/CGrtHpuHuo_/), and [three button](https://www.instagram.com/p/BhPDyikgvCI/) jackets can all look really different.
This is just one of tons and tons of details that can change how a jacket looks. A popular style right now is called ["3 roll 2"](https://www.instagram.com/p/CWjDlaBrQcb/) Where it has 3 buttons but looks a lot more like a 2 button jacket because the top button is rolled into the lapel. There's also stuff about how long the lapel is, how long the jacket is, how wide the lapel is, how the quarters(? I keep forgetting the term) lay, etc.
Huh, OK. I really don't know anything about menswear lol but I would like to learn more. I wanna wear a nice suit some day and not look like a fool lol
I think there's a quick guide in the wiki/sidebar of /r/malefashionadvice if you're interested. The main things are picking a good color (navy or charcoal usually), making sure it fits well, this rule, remember to unbutton when you're sitting and button when you're standing, and some tie stuff if you're wearing a tie.
As I type that out it sounds like a lot haha but plenty of shops like J Crew, Suit Supply, etc. (in the US) can help you a bunch with the process.
There are quite a few instances of "vestigial buttons" in clothing.
i’ll do whatever i want.
The *i don't give a shit*, *i don't give a shit*, and *i don't give a shit* rule.
this is the actual art of manliness right here
Yeah fuck these guides
Also have heard 1 button standing, 0 sitting. Always assumed these rules were invented by fat guys. Seems dumb to me. It has buttons. I'm buttonin' 'em. Try to stop me.
It’s just because suits tend to bunch up when buttoned if sitting
and it looks like shit if you unbutton it while standing, such as when you are a groomsman, in front of the entire damn wedding
Stop you? There's no way to stop TheEntireRomanArmy!
The Germans managed to find a way…
I’m pretty skinny but I find any well-fitting jacket begins to stretch and tighten if you leave it buttoned while sitting. With a regular off-the-shelf sport coat, you’re probably fine, but if you get one that’s actually fitted (or fully tailored, if you have a lot more money than me), it’ll feel a little constricting if you leave it buttoned while sitting down.
When you sit with it buttoned it often stresses the buttons / threads holding them
I'll try the "Sometimes, sometimes, sometimes" rule
I'm confused. Is this sometimes, always, never button them? Or sometimes, always, never leave them open?
Button them, never do up the bottom button, no matter how fit you are you look like a fat penguin
I scrolled way too far to find this
The first one
What’s the point of having the third button?
It looks very stupid to have the top two buttons buttoned and the bottom one unbuttoned
dont wear anything with buttons: problem solved
Exactly. I just wear a velcro suit.
We wear Velcro ties and shirts too. They just have fake buttons on them.
I wear a hoodie.
[velcro hoodie by KG](https://chicago.suntimes.com/platform/amp/2018/2/14/18385646/kevin-garnett-reveals-secret-to-gravity-defying-sideways-hoodie)
I will never be able to cope with this stupid fucking third button that is societally forbidden. Why
We've put a third button on your coat.
*You must not use the third button.*
Because your jacket gets creased if you do button it
Seems like "stop producing deliberately dysfunctional jackets" should have been the solution long before this became a convention.
I button all of them, fuck tradition.
“Three buttons is a little 90s Mr. Wayne.”
then why the fuck does it have 3 buttons
Suit wearing person here. This guide is complete bullshit. Wear a jacket however you like.
I button whatever buttons i damn well please! Im no fat french king!
Screw that. If there’s a button, I’ll use it.
Fuck trafition. I look good with the bottom button fastened and that's how I'll wear it. Traditions can die sometimes
Also: unbutton when you sit down and re-button when you stand again.
Enh…fashion ‘rules’ are dumb! Wear what u feel confident in and wear it however u like.
Really, who gives a shit lol
Why is the third button even there then‽
To flex on The Poors
*How is that even a flex‽*
Cause if you're nice and fat your suit will be flexing at the gut. Hence, the need to keep the bottom button open.
*We're going to give you a fully functioning button on your jacket. BUT DON'T YOU DARE EVER FEKKING USE IT!!*
I really despise random made-up rules. The only thing that I despise more are people who feel like it's their job to enforce the random made-up rules.
May I ask the reason?
This rule started because king Edward VII was so fat he could never button the lower button.
I am no English, why should I honour a fat English king?
What would an Italian dressing guide say?
Why though? Such dumb arbitrary rules
I paid for 3 buttons. I'm gonna use all 3. Try to stop me
Bunched up jacket lookin ass
The 1990's would like to discuss this 3rd button = never thing