By - malakesxasame
Selfmade was such an issue VIT got 2 junglers to replace him lmao
This is really wild and huge if it works out.
I can't wait for the twitch chat memes of accusing him of match fixing if he has a game where he ints his face off lmao
Fucking ~~selfmade~~ Bo
no one in China wanted him after the match-fixing scandal, so he was taken to Europe?!
esports in being dirty catch up with traditional sports incredibly fast...
I think the West was open to him because match-fixing is much less common. There’s no culture of it so they probably view it as less of a risk and attribute it to Bo’s environment.
That being said, if it comes up again, there will be no third chance.
a huge part is also he didn't do it himself and was rather forced into it.
He also confessed and helped catch the ring.
Maybe unpopular take but i dont consider it as bad as ddosing like what jensen did. Yet we can still move on amm. The most bs case though is dopa being banned for 1000 years just for boosting. Denied us of an incredibly talented pro but that's kespa for you
Did dopa ever actually say he wanted to go pro? I thought he was pretty satisfied with being a solo queue player
He was on team dark back in ogn. He pretty much hard carried the team so maybe.
He never actually played a game on that team as far as I'm aware
he played qulifiers and hard carried them through it. he was then banned by ogn before he could play a single stage game. which is why the cloud templar tribute draft exists.
In ogn yeah but i think he played in qualifiers
> I think the West was open to him because match-fixing is much less common. There’s no culture of it so they probably view it as less of a risk and attribute it to Bo’s environment
Heh, look in to the T2-3 CSGO scene
there were no incidents with ibp 😄😃
Also, it’s amazing how Skadoodle got away with it and won a major with C9 despite being on IBP.
Iirc it's because his winnings were delayed until after the fix was leaked for some reason, so he just casually declined them. Therefore technically no concrete evidence he participated.
this whole thread going into ibp, when this still is happening en mass in t3 na lol
btw he would still be the fpx jg right now if he commited match fixing. Seems that hes done with that. I would trust him.
Did you lose a bet on the match? What is your agenda against this guy?
He's a kid who was coerced into fixing the match by people in higher positions than him. He then voluntarily came forward and admitted that he did it, getting a small ban for that. He did everything he could realistically have done
Exactly. If he didnt fix, they would have benched him forever which also would have ruined his career either way
Some of these weirdos don’t believe in second chances. Especially from people that are young who are statistically more likely to change.
yeah not like LDL was and probably still is ridden with matchfixing, bo just unfortunately got the fate of being made an example there.
I mean just take a look at Valorant, pro scene is riddled with matchfixers from other games.
He is young and kinda a scapegoat that forced to follow orders from the upside.
Rip selfmade 3 year contract to get dicked a month later
VIT either pay absolutely nothing when players are on the bench or they've lost a shit ton of money by signing players to long contracts and not using them or being able to sell them
"Soon vitality gonna sigh all the players in EU so other teams just cant do anything"
Not if ocelote decides to make a move...
Like any of the other EU teams had enough IQ in their scouting to go for bo even thought it shouldve been a pretty obvious pick up for any team... These clowns act like importing to EU is a crime while kicking 80% of their "rookie talent" right back to erls after 1 split
I think the joke is just now that Vitality own 4 different junglers.
They co-own Yellow Stripes, so they've got half of a 5th one with eaRyz
Technically 5. Cannot wait for perkz to say he's role-swapping there too just to stick it to jankos.
do lec teams have academy equivalents or is that not a thing because of erls
because i can think of selfmade and the two junglers from op but who's the 4th
Yes all LEC have an academy team playing in one of the ERLs.
But, iirc, they aren't obligated to anymore.
Yes I think Astralis Don't have one.
Skeanz from vitality bee in lfl very talented but never had a chance in a decent team
and you act like his rumored buyout and the covid situation in china hasn't prevented him from being moved yet, talking about clowns...
We also don't know what he was offered. Vit is the 1 LEC org that is willing to throw around LCS salaries and buy-outs.
yeah i'm really surprised it took so long for someone to sign him tbh, he looks so promising
this is literally the meme about TL lol
wait thats so sick that they get bo actually. Didnt at all think he would be going to EU
There were rumors of it being a possibility. Wooloo said that Bo could go to a western team (meaning that EU is an option) and also there was a guy working for surge teasing Bo to Europe. Was obvious that Vitality would be the most likely destination for him, but after the initial Haru report, I figured that the surge guy must've been baiting lol
TSM fans probably ripping their hair out trying to figure out why the deal fell through for them
AFAIK it fell through because they couldn't get the Visa Stuff approved
And doinb has the answers but won't say.
THE ONE TIME WE NEED DOINB TO LEAK SOMETHING
He can't talk because he doesn't want to be sued.
The reason is obviously Bo asked too many questions during the interview.
what about Leakos?
i love selfmade but Bo?? cant say no to that
How is selfmade replaced i dont get it lol, like 80% of their games last split was him doing the heavy lifting lol
The article said that the players wanted him out
Selfmade made them look bad
Yea because he was rocking their retirement boat
In Wooloo‘s article he stated that the rest of the team requested for a change in the jungle position as Selfmade had a completely different view on how to approach mid-late game than the rest of the team
realistically alphari and perkz are the most expensive players so if you don't trade or sell them you will keep both of them which leaves a weak side playing botlane and jungle to replace. Bo must be at his cheapest right now and probably better than 8/10 LEC junglers mechanically. (at least) i just hope perkz and alphari get their shit together and do something like they did in their peak.
Lol what is Alpharis approach to mid-late game?
Blaming his teammates for not allowing laning phase to last until the 40 minute mark
Because topside of alphari selfmade perkz just doesn't work, and he's the cheapest (and probably easiest) to replace.
Crazy to think that Alphari is more expensive when the guy has done nothing except being a good laner.
Really hope he steps it up someday... He did not want to play with Hans, he did not want to play for Jatt, he does not want to play with Selfmade…
Issue with Vitality is that they're all individually strong, so regardless of who gets replaced it feels undeserved
He should for sure get a new team though, SK and Misfits should for sure aim to get him or maybe even BDS if they end up losing Cinkrof to some other team (but i doubt it)
Their botlane is definitely not individually strong, and has been a clear weak point for them
Carzy was shit in reg season but he showed up in playoffs. Labrov however has been ghosting - at best - for his entire LEC career. I agree with replacing selfmade even though i like him cause he s stylistically not the right fit anymore but not replacing the coaching staff (this is why I wanted Caedrel to coach this team so much, someone who the players would for sure respect and listen to and also get along super well with cause he s their age-group and gets them as players) and Labrov makes no sense.
If they picked replacing Selfmade instead of Mephisto (and also not replace Labrov cause he s friends with Carzzy) just cause the 2 fell through then they ll continue to be mid table.
Selfmade is working with a Toplaner that builds and plays not to die and a midlaner thats passed his prime who shows up occasionally
The fuck, Perkz had a great split?
Prime Perkz is not a top 5 mid in EU, but much better than that. Nobody called him bad, just past his prime (or not in top form).
Look I know EU doesn't need imports and replacing him for Haru doesn't make sense but if you have the opportunity to get someone lile Bo you just fucking take it lmao
1. That was Perkz.
2. Mindset clash with the whole rest of the team.
3. Bo is simply too good of an opportunity to pass on.
If there's a pattern of player A joins team of good players, and player A looks like they're doing everything while the rest of the team is performing below their level, eventually you can put two and two together.
cus Bo is better
You don't get it cause you didn't watch any of their games. He needed to be replaced.
With how many resources Alphari and Perkz usually get this is not at all surprising. I could easily see this mid to late game stylistic difference being that SMM wants resources to be a carry in those phases of the game and the rest of the top side want him as a facilitator instead of a carry.
Or selfmade wanting to be a lot more conservative while alphari and perkz wanna look for plays everywhere around the map all the time. In fnatic 2020 nemesis, sm and rekkles were mostly passive while bwipo and hylissang were a lot more aggresive all the time. Probably a combination of both, which means that ( this may be a surprise to some) vitality indeed had stylistic differences and lack of synergy.
Vitality hasn't been able to win the championship for years, so they hired a guy who knows how to fix matches
Why not just start Bo?
> During that time Zhou “Bo” Yang-Bo will develop as a substitute while acquiring his visa and learning English.
He has no Visa and does not speak (good enough) english.
Interesting, so he’ll just stay in China then? Assume he can’t actually fly to EU until the Visa is resolved
It's possible they try to fly him in on a tourist visa and have him not compete?
I'd suspect being employed by a European company would make this not viable. Even if he's not playing he's still working for them.
I think he can't compete in LEC without a working visa? Kinda like Milica's situation in 2020 spring... vitality.... oh no history is going to repeat itself!
Considering what happened to Dexter I wouldn't advise that
That's a big no no. That's how you get yourself banned from going to a country
That's a good way to be banned from a country for breach of visa.
Trick and Expect when they came in in 2016 G2 also knew jack shit of English and they were pretty fucking good the first 2 years in EU
The game evolved a lot since then and the skill level is much closer overall, most things come down to better communication and better teamwork nowadays.
I think this is just more likely his Visa is in a fucked spot (tho I am just speculating now) more than anything. DoinB was talking about how BO has failed to join another team this year recently iirc, so he might have just heard his Visa wasn't getting approved for some reason. Likely VIT has just already signed a long term contract with him for when he can come over which at earliest probably not likely to be in a good spot for summer. This seems like to me a long term invesment which I feel like has a good chance to pay off well for VIT. Kid is really fucking good and probably just gratful af to be able to play somewhere already cause of his sitatuion, so his motivation to work hard even tho he is going from China to Eu, should be high.
Trick was such a waste of talent, like he played *1* game in LCK where he gigastomped SKT and ended their 22 game win streak. Did CJ keep playing him? Of course they did not.
Like that shit hurt to see.
Visa issues apparently
+Haru already speaks english, so maybe they think Haru is better for the first weeks/months bcs of this
Makes sense to let him chill and adapt to EU/learn English in academy rather than throwing him straight into LEC, having him possibly perform badly due to the above and then risk everyone losing trust in the project.
He wont play academy
Either way it still gives him time to adapt to the continent which is the biggest thing. Subbing in and getting to know the team in a lower pressure role could be a big difference in terms of how easily you can integrate him.
If he plays like he played his last 10 LPL games he's a top 3 jungler in the world, this is huge for LEC..
if he played like his last 10 lpl games he'd fucking giga gap jiejie and canyon together, dude averages like 7 kills against some of the best teams in the world
Average kill count doesn't mean all that much. Bo is fucking fantastic (assuming he's kept up that form) but I wouldn't say he's better than Canyon. Best jungler in the LPL? With that very small sample size, yeah, good chance. Best in the world? Bit of a stretch, ESPECIALLY with the sample size and lack of high pressure games
Nice seeing orgs plan for the future. They’re investing heavily in Bo during Summer, while still being competitive with Haru. Banking on a huge payout with Bo possibly being the best Jungle in the west by a significant margin.
2023 looking huge if their current core figures out how to play to their potential 👀
Unless they win Summer, I highly doubt this roster sticks together.
But they could plan around Bo as their main piece for 2023 if they drop Perkz, Alphari, and/or Carzzy after summer
If they fail hard I could see Alphari retiring. Who knows Perkz hunger is still up there.
Even if they win I am not sure about Carzzy staying unless he improves drastically. Especially KC doesn't make it into LEC since that means Rekkles is on the market again.
Alphari will not willingly retire with that ego. Will prob end up on a mid-lower tier NA team
What NA teams are going to want to sign him if he continues on the same trajectory? After the EG win, fans are even more adamant that teams need to give more opportunities to NA talent. Why would they sign a guy who's past his prime instead of giving a young player that opportunity?
Haru-Bo? Love their gummy bears
Everyone who has watched Bo's stint in FPX knows how insanely high his potential is, will be interesting to see how he develops behind Haru as a sub and how they are going to manage to juggle both Junglers being in the team, also has to be kind of awkward for Haru knowing he will be the starter but the team already has their eyes set on his replacement the same day he joined the team together with Bo.
Ehhh, Haru is kinda used to this. He knows he isn't good enough to really start for a good team, but supporting another jungler is something he's got a ton of experience with
He's won worlds, as Ambition's sub
Almost won again, as Clids sub
And then he's spent a lot of time starting on shit teams since. Im sure he's perfectly capable of recognizing that at this point he is either gonna continue starting for gradually worse teams with a much lower paycheck OR he joins an okay team thats looking for a sub/fill jungle until they get the situation sorted out
Hes making more here than he would if he ended up back in LATAM (or retiring) and hes gonna have at least a few weeks, maybe even up to two months, where he plays stage games and can make himself look good for other teams
Meanwhile he'll be helping out Bo, which again, dude has plenty of experience with that
There quite literally isn't a more perfect jungler for this role imo. Affordable, has played with and helped out world class junglers, isn't awful, doesn't have an ego
Vitality is the PSG of LEC lmao
Are they? They tried lots of cheaper rosters.. people complain EU teams don't spend and then call them PSG lol
PSG does win shit tho.
With that squad winning the league is not an achivement but a must.
Wasn't this said already last split about Vitality?
No bro, idiots like you don't understand, Vitality has some of the most legendary players in EU history like Selfmade and Labrov. They're going to continue stacking r/alpharistrophycase just you wait until playoffs they'll get it together for sure
no, Fnatic had the best roster on paper. And it wasn't even close
Yup, been saying that since FNC's roster got unveiled. On paper they had the best MID/ADC/Support in the league. One of the young junglers with a lot of potential. The only questionmark was if Wunder would return to form or not, but if he did he would be top 3 minimum.
Like I never really understood the Vitality superteam idea, it was expensive sure, but it wasn't as stacked.
They win a super easy league in Europe, and they dont even win it all the time. Outside of that they don't win shit lol
They still made UCL finals. I've yet to see Vitality do the equivalent in League
did they win anything internationaly tho?
winning in 4th league in europe isnt that impressive with all that petrodollars
I'm not familiar with football, what are the better leagues ? Spain, England, Germany and I guess Italy ? I think i heard that Portugal's is pretty good too
Yeah, those 4. UEFA rating works basing on international competitions in the last 5 years. Right now it is England > Spain > Italy > Germany > France.
Portugal is the 6th one but I think if there is no PSG to farm the points, Portugal also wouldve been ahead of then.
they havent won a European title lol
> The decision to bench Selfmade was a request by the whole Vitality player roster and coaching staff made to the management. The reason for that request is not due to any difference outside of the game but due to different visions in how to play the mid-to-late game on the rift
Still need to change support.
Damn. Poor Selfmade. I'm super curious to hear how he sees the mid late game should be played cause I wasn't a fan of whatever VIT was doing during the split tbh
i mean whatever vit was doing was probably not the perfect vision of any of the players but rather a weird mix of all of them that cant work out. so both might work individually but not together
Iirc Carzzy wanted to play with Labrov again and it was one of the reasons why he joined VIT
Yeah, I wonder if he still wants to though. They were pretty fucking ass as a duo getting killed in lane every other game.
They were shit in teamfights too sadly.
For real, that botlane was atrocious. felt like wasted talent
Yeah but they're not a good duo. I get wanting to play together but clearly they don't have synergy
I can already tell you Bo wont see the game differently than selfmade.
At worlds 2020 selfmade was pretty adamant chineese will roll over fnc if fnc doesnt play more Agro.
And its fking hilarious they think mid late is selfmades problem, when Alphari is the one thats invisible or afk after laning phase is over.
Ngl that sounds bad. Sure "no reasons outside the game" seem to highlight that he is a good teammate ... but then again if the issue was so big that they couldn't compromise with him and make it work it looks bad.
Would be terrible to lose 2nd biggest jungle talent in whole League second only to elyoya imo (i dont mention jankos because he isn't a talent, he is an unquestionable king who has talent, experience and expertise that is probably bigger that sum of the rest top4 junglers)
probably similar case to Rekkles on G2. nothing much to do if you have big differences on how you want to play out games
So 2023 a new VIT superteam?
even tho this vit team became a meme superteam i think its great for LEC that teams are investing more in building strong teams
Superteam 2 : Electric Butthole Glue (shout-out to LazerPig)
Basically the same we had last split. Potential is there, but is it enough?
Love Bo and Haru from their great debuts, good luck to them
Actually rip Selfmade. He's in contract prison lol
Someone from NA will yoink him from Vitality.
If that were to happen, then I hope it's TSM. Just imagine Regi trying to verbally abuse Selfmade, that would be fucking content
Imagine Regi vs this Vitality. Alphari/Perkz/Selfmade would just slap him if he tried to give them lip
Most likely bet would be he ends up in Na, but ima just throw out that he and Rekkles does like each other and if KC is getting a spot for 2023 then I kinda hope he stays in Eu and joins them.
Imagine him joining the KC hype train tho and just doing what cabo and rekkles are doing and go play LFL for summer and hope to get to LEC for 2023. Would be funny to see the LFL team getting even more stupidly stacked with LEC level players.
3 Eu players that has been to worlds and been some of the best peforming players in the roles during certain splits....on the same team in the B league to the LEC. Well I prefer that to them ending up in the Na lcs just so there is a higher chance to see them promoted back to lec but it's still so wierd how many good players might just play LFL/Eu masters atm.
> it's still so wierd how many good players might just play LFL/Eu masters atm.
Well, when half of the lec teams are pathetic leeches with no interest whatsoever on making a good team, it happens.
I do wonder what's up with all the hate SM get from his team mate. Some of them love him (Lider, Rekkles, ect has a lot of good word about SM) but some seems to despise him. (VIT roster RN ?)
He seems to get pretty tilted sometime, but if my team was throwing like VIT did, I would be too lol
Does anyone said publicly that he hates Selfmade though?
I just assume any EU players in contract prison goes to TL
They can't even add any new imports but they'll find a way
TL is maxed out on imports between Hans and Bwipo.
I don't think you understand.
TL will find a way
There isnt a single team in NA that can handle selfmade, man just speaks his mind and northern burgers simply can't handle criticism.
somebody look for the team that had dardoch the longest
I just assume that's liquid since he was there for 4 splits right?
I'm praying for KC Selfmade.
Right into my veins.
BO Nah I'm so hyped for this I hope they commit to him the guy is literally best jungler in the world good.
Surprised Bo wasnt signed somewhere sooner, though Covid policies and visa prob had a hand in that
From the few series he has played, dude is definitely talented. Though that was a couple years ago. Let's see how he performs, since if he's at the level he was in lpl he should be by far the best jg after settling in
Interesting move to sign a player that they're not planning to play at all for the next 8 months. You can see why Bo would go for it - he's not likely to play anywhere else - but surely it leaves Haru and Skeanz unsure where they'll be next year?
The funniest part of this to me is that Selfmade signed a 2 year contract extension at the end of march.
I wonder how long until they sub out haru for bo, I've following haru for years and he's got an earned reputation of no brainer, hope he shows something good at least
someone put selfmade in the bottom of the pool meme
Everyone is excited for bo it seems. Is he really that good? Might as well fall flat don't underestimate the culture shock. At least vit is doubling down on their project.
But labrov really looks out of place in this team now unless he turns out on 200%
He played 10 absolutely ridiculous games where he was averaging like 7 kills per game, nearly 8 csm and 18 CSD and over 500 dpm as a jungler. Guy also had a full split with similar stats in the LDL. I don't know whether he just had the 10 best games of his life or something, but I've not seen any other jungler come close to having 10 consecutive games where they are that dominant.
The guy just completely bulldozed his way through teams as if he was playing in a low elo game.
he also set the LPL record for most kills by junglers at the time (broken later by Karsa in Spring 2022 playoffs)
but on the other hand he was playing with peak-form Doinb and his performance probably benefitted substantially from it
hard to say, he only played 10 games for a then mediocre FPX team but carried harder than anyone I ever seen, gigastomping the likes of tes, ig, and suning
He was dominating some of the best junglers in LPL, during the preseason DRX wanted to sign him, and when he was scrimming with TSM he was solo winning games versus a playoff team.
He had potential to be Canyon level if he was able to keep playing in LPL at least.
I completely forgot about the rumors with DRX, God damn I really wish we had seen him go there
Pyoshit needs to go, straight ran it all last year, and last split.
If DRX had a good jungler they could probably compete for 3rd. Well. In spring at least, Summer wouldve been a lot harder.
So happy that somebody signed Bo, kid did something that loads of his peers did but because he was the face of it he suffered far more. If theres no visa issues in the long run this could be a superb signing.
people just like to conveniently forget that his bosses forced him to do so. always been weird to me why he gets so much hate
Hella excited for Bo
Ok bo for selfmade i understand but is he or haru going to tell alphari what items to build on gp?
Just kick Alphari. He did nothing good in spring. I doubt he will do anything good in summer split.
VIT is all carries no supportive players… Bo would want resources for himself, while Perkz and Alphari would want the same…Haru can be a supportive jungler for his laners, but I just hope Alphari does not require too much from him.
I think Perkz needs to make the transition like faker. He hasnt the mechanics to compete with the likes of showmaker and chovy so a more of a supporting style would fit him and his team better.
So skeanz goes to Vitality B, Bo goes to English class, Haru starts, and selfmade goes to McDonald’s? Ngl this sounds like the exact opposite of what would fix vitality’s problems.
I mean they needed to bench Selfmade because he seems to be a point of conflict for many in the team, they want Bo but he can't play yet so they get Haru until Bo is ready
Blame Selfmade for these roster changes /s
On the real though, it's crazy that they signed both Haru AND Bo since it seems like they've completely moved on
Bo Is a fucking insane pick up holy shit
Bo is incredibly talented, I'm happy to see he's still able to play professional, and thank VIT for giving the guy second chance. LEC summer is going to be spicy.
Bo would be extremely hype. the dudes an absolute beast
Don't forget, among all the understandable exitement for Bo, that they just fucked over Selfmade a bit more by extending his contract for another year so they can demand a higher transfer sum. No wonder Selfmade was livid.
The players and coaching staff requested that SM gets benched, not the management
I mean that is what happens when you sign a contract without guarantees.
You are acting like he signed the contract at gunpoint or something.
No, I'm acting like he signed a contract while not being told the full truth. He very clearly assumed Vit wanted to continue with him. It's actually quite sad how many fans are willing to forget about Selfmade immediately, not even sparing him a second thought - just because it's Bo.
selmade failed in fnatic and now with the super team i always thought he is really good but at some point you have to ask yourself will i get better teams? unlikely so you have to make it work at some point its sad but i feel like he wont win ever now
Bo? I love that guy!
Calling it now - this team will barely make playoffs and will miss worlds. Selfmade was NOT the problem and I feel like Bo is by no means a magical fix to this team. Sure, he was probably the best jungler in 2021 Spring during his stint with FPX, but this looks like a classic insert X import player here and hope for the best.
The article alludes to Bo playing little to none of the summer split, but yeah I don’t think their odds for worlds are great. That being said JG-Supp synergy was awful, so one of them is being replaced makes sense. Maybe the players preferred Labrov over Selfmade, who knows.
Vitality had a clear jungle mid and jung support synergy issue. Perkz and Alphari would win lane every time but SM was not playing to support them. SM also was not playing with Labrov's timings too.
It's easier to replace the jungler than replace both mid and support to fix the issue.
So Selfmade really is just EU Dardoch huh
Not at all, so far there have been 0 claims about attitude or anything.
As they say, the problem is vision. The disagreements with Selfmade back in FNC were about that too. His vision of the game could change any day.
Nah eu dardoch is forgiven.
Both Haru and Bo at the same time wtf LMAO
Happy for Bo!
So they signed two junglers?
RIP TSM Bo
I'm kinda amazed how every one instantly forgot about SM the moment they saw this title lmao
So I guess the Visa issue and super secret reason Doinb didn't tell us all worked out in the end.
Hope he will do the same thing Santorin did when he was sick, participating in discussions and watching scrims from china, it would improve his English and reaccustom him to competitive environment since it's been a year since he played.
How is their English? Are they comfortable listening and speaking it? I think jungle is a role that requires good communication for setups and keeping track of enemy jungler.
vitality make the best possible team to not get into playoffs