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Baslifico

What happened to all those Brexiteers insisting we didn't need to worry about food security because "we can import it all anyway"?


paulusmagintie

> food security because "we can import it all anyway"? I believe most said we are self sufficient acctually, no need for imports....I recall continuously telling people we haven't been self sufficient for 300 years, hence the battle for the atlantic in WW2.


shatterhand19

Wait, u mean we don't grow oranges and avocados in the UK????? /s But I am not surprised, if someone believed a word coming from the mouth of an upper class disheveled orangutan, they can believe anything...


gestalto

Woahhh, what's with the unbridled hate? Orangutans are lovely creatures, don't disparage them by using them as a comparison!


shatterhand19

You are right, orangutans can be taught how to use combs or to do simple tasks...


RGPFerrous

They'd also show up to Cobra meetings when told.


CcryMeARiver

Ooooooook!


PigsyMonkey

Indeed. They are excellent librarians.


grebo1961

Don't call them the m word


thepurplehedgehog

They would. Everyone knows orang-utans are highly professional businessprimates who pride themselves on meeting attendance.


Ask_Me_What_Im_Up_to

And they make good librarians.


webchimp32

Agreed, one was famously a librarian and another even managed to host a car show on TV. [](/GNU Terry Pratchett)


Mr_Spooks_49

They would probably run the country better too.


Mont-ka

Was it Luxembourg or Belgium where they did really well during the 2008 crisis because they had no government at the time and doing literally nothing was better than any policy decisions other governments made?


DonDove

Belgium


super_starmie

You'd be surprised what people think. Back when the Brexit vote happened, there was also that nasty drought across Western Europe and it affected the supply of a lot of imports. I worked in a supermarket at the time. This man was very angry we were sold out of a lot of produce. We had signs up explaining the problems due to droughts in Europe, which was affecting supply. And he said, and I quote: "What are you getting them in from Europe for, anyway? This is exactly what the Brexit vote was about! You should only be stocking BRITISH produce!!" The stuff we were out of was all stuff that was either out of season or doesn't grow here and had to be imported... from Europe. If you're wanting fucking strawberries or peppers in November WHERE DO YOU THINK THEY COME FROM?


SuperHyperFunTime

People were angry when Yorkshire Tea had to explain to people that the tea doesn't actually come from Yorkshire. This is decades of a negligent education system that have been tantamount to propaganda for the British empire.


shatterhand19

I remember the good old days when I was little when things like watermelons or bananas were seasonal... Sadly many have grown used to the year round supply now and don't realise how much they rely on foreign countries


teut509

Oook


ScoutTech

'Ere, who let a monkey in? ... ARRGGHHHHH


AnselaJonla

Another "suicide by Librarian" then?


grebo1961

You've done it now......


Ok_Thought9126

RIP.


lesser_panjandrum

GNU Terry Pratchett.


MotoMkali

I mean we could though. We just need to actually invest in the greenhouse farming the way the Netherlands have. They are tiny country but the leading exporter of many tropical goods such as bananas. 8th largest food exporter overall for a country with 17.5 million people. We should really follow their lead in many aspects. Including their land reclamation projects. As they produce fertile land.


xbops

Soon enough we will have the climate for it!


Baslifico

> I believe most said we are self sufficient acctually, no need for imports How can anyone believe that? It's not like the information is secret or hard to find... > I recall continuously telling people ... Absolutely. but like everything it's a matter of degree. We should be trying to get ourselves into a position where we could at least *subsist* without external support. Not least because it would make us far less vulnerable to supply chain shocks.


Jambronius

Regardless of how we do it we'd still be vulnerable to supply chain shocks, just in a different area. There are very few countries on earth that can subsist without external support and these are typically among the poorest and uneducated societies. We live in a global society and the faster people realise that and reduce restrictions on movement of goods, services and labour the better life we will all live.


Wise-Application-144

Yep the most economcially efficient thing is to farm what grows here and trade globally. So we grow potatoes, beef, brussels sprouts. Spain grows the lemons, oranges etc. And we both sell our suplusses to each other. The problem with protectionism is that it reduces the efficiency and raises the price of everything. So we *can* tell the EU to fuck off, "Buy British", grow our own food. Problem is it'll be much more expensive and people will be able to afford less stuff overall. ​ Shame that jingoism and identity politics clouded the simple economic reality.


paulusmagintie

> How can anyone believe that? It's not like the information is secret or hard to find... Because they where told we don't need anybody and we can get on fine on our own, no we won't have issues with food! = We are self sustainable. >We should be trying to get ourselves into a position where we could at least subsist without external support. Hang on a sec...what part of this conversation did you not understand? Not self sustainable for 300, that means even at a minimal level WE CANNOT or that would count as self sustained by definition. We cannot provide food for 70 million people by ourselves.


Baslifico

> Because they where told They were told about Santa Claus and the Easter bunny, too. 15 seconds and an internet connection is all it would take. > Hang on a sec...what part of this conversation did you not understand? Not self sustainable for 300 There's a difference gulf "Have as much as we want" and "Have as much as we need to avoid mass starvation". Subsistence is _far_ below the levels we'd normally try to maintain. Your 300 year food security metric relates to desired quantities and selection, not bare minimum calorie count to avoid starvation. https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/united-kingdom-food-security-report-2021/united-kingdom-food-security-report-2021-theme-2-uk-food-supply-sources > The UK currently produces about 60% of its domestic food consumption by economic value, part of which is exported. This means just under half of the actual food on plates is produced in the UK, including the majority of grains, meat, dairy, and eggs. This figure would be higher without exports. UK supply comprises domestic production excluding exports, plus imported food. The production to supply ratio, important for understanding the UK’s self-sufficiency, has remained stable over the last two decades, and for crops that can be commercially grown in the UK has been around 75%. > ... > The UK currently produces the equivalent of about 60% of domestic consumption by value, part of which is exported. About 54% of food on plates is produced in the UK, including the majority of grains, meat, dairy, and eggs. Self-sufficiency is about 54% in fresh vegetables, and 16% in fruit, as subsequent indicators will set out. **UK food production is driven by market forces rather than aiming to maximise calorie production from available land**. In any case, as I said above... It's not binary. Less dependence on imports would be beneficial _regardless_ of whether it hits true self sufficiency.


Poes-Lawyer

So in summary: Brexit is going so well that we're arguing that *technically* we won't starve in our current situation, we'll just have non-life-threatening but severe food shortages. Good stuff.


Wise-Application-144

We're 100% self-sufficient\* \* *if you wait a few years to fundamentally rework our farming system and focus on pure staples like potatoes and turnips and eat those for almost every meal like they do in rural Mongolia*


JRugman

> We should be trying to get ourselves into a position where we could at least subsist without external support. That's actually been the basis of UK agricultural policy since WW2, when our colonial era reliance on vulnerable supply chains for a lot of our food was so sharply exposed. What that's meant is that since then, the focus has been on bosting production of staple commodity crops like wheat, barley, potatoes, sugar beet, rapeseed, eggs and milk. We actually produce more than we need of a lot of those. That's one of the key factors that explains why we import so much of our fruit and veg, because those aren't seen as staple crops, and also because consumers have increasingly wanted to access them out of season.


eamonn33

hence the irish potato famine, because british industrial cities needed Irish grain to keep going


Wise-Application-144

Yeah other nations having control over your basic survival needs (food, energy) inflicts a very basic vulnerability. Other nations have found that out to great detriment and suffering. Some people would say that snubbing our biggest trading partners and food suppliers while also making ourselves reliant on energy from hostile dictatorships that have their nukes aimed at us was perhaps a little naive...


Peak_District_hill

This is a climate change issue not a Brexit issue. Europe is also experiencing a record drought this year, and Europe won’t be spared from future aridification either. [Most of all, we have to understand that the Earth System is now in positive feedback and is moving ineluctably towards the stable hot state of past climates. I cannot stress too strongly the dangers inherent in systems in positive feedback. Imagine a wooden house whose occupants have built too large a fire to warm them and the furniture near the fire was smouldering. If they did not act immediately, positive feedback would ensure that the whole house was consumed by fire in minutes. Few seem to realise that the present IPCC models predict almost unanimously that by 2040 the average summer in Europe will be as hot as the summer of 2003 when over 30,000 died from heat. By then we may cool ourselves with air conditioning and learn to live in a climate no worse than that of Bagdad now. But without extensive irrigation the plants will die and both farming and natural ecosystems will be replaced by scrub and desert. What will there be to eat? The same dire changes will affect the rest of the world and I can envisage Americans migrating into Canada and the Chinese into Siberia but there may be little food for any of them.](http://www.jameslovelock.org/climate-change-on-a-living-earth/)


Baslifico

> This is a climate change issue not a Brexit issue. It's lots of factors. Everyone's suffering the global issues, we're the only ones who decided to impose trade sanctions on ourselves, which is A) increasing the damage and B) Limiting our ability to mitigate the damage by reducing options. https://www.reuters.com/world/uk/brexit-has-added-6-britains-food-bills-researchers-say-2022-04-27/ > The research showed that the biggest spike in the price of food imported from the EU came in January 2021 after an 11-month post-Brexit transition period ended and a free trade agreement negotiated by Prime Minister Boris Johnson's government came into force. > The 6% rise in food prices that was attributable to increased trade barriers took place between late 2019 - just before Britain formally left the EU - and September 2021.


Peak_District_hill

Sure but the more pressing issue is climate change not the way the country voted on Brexit. I wish people in this sub would focus on the issue at hand not on a referendum result. Climate change is going to fuck with our food supply way more than trade barriers ever could.


Baslifico

> Sure but the more pressing issue is climate change not the way the country voted on Brexit. I get that that's your personal bugbear but actually the MOST pressing issue is ensuring people can eat.


Peak_District_hill

We aren’t close to a famine. There is plenty of food available throughout the country. If you are worried about people not being able to afford food then you’re going to have to address the inequalities of capitalism, but that also isn’t something you’d be able to solve with an alternative referendum result as Europe is as capitalist as the UK. Let’s revisit this in 10 years and again in 20 and see how we’re getting on with food security.


BounceBurnBuff

I'll do you one better: My bold prediction is that food security won't even take 3 more years of this before serious Government intervention is required. Farms aren't going to be sustainable with this level of crop failing whilst already struggling with exporting their yields.


FuntCaseKid

But Brexit /s Honestly so many people love to use anything they can to fight an argument especially in a Brexit situation where it’s often a case of “I never voted for Brexit” Not only do they think they’re making a valid point but must also think they’re not part of the issue. Climate change has already destroyed so much and will continue to do so unless we act now!


Peak_District_hill

The obsession with Brexit is wild to me, we lost that battle, please take the lessons from that loss and apply them to the important fights that are about to happen over the next couple of decades. But to keep focusing on it as if it’s responsible for all our problems in this country is at best disingenuous and at worst culpable.


nutmeggerking

>please take the lessons from that loss and apply them to the important fights that are about to happen over the next couple of decades. And how would we do that? By pointing out wherever Brexit hurting us instead of helping us. So this would be one of those cases. There has been no collective acknowledgment that Brexit was an error. No lessons have been learned. What you are suggesting is that we just close our eyes and move forward so we can repeat the same mistakes in the future.


Razada2021

Would things be better had we remained? Yes. But we didn't. So let's focus on children not being able to eat. And bills being too high. And smashing the tories for what they have done.


Qxzkjp

Fuck me. I read that and expected it was from no-name hype fairy who was exaggerating about a subject they didn't fully understand. Then I checked the source and it's from _James Lovelock_. Fuck we are screwed.


Peak_District_hill

Aye and the kicker is he gave this lecture in October 2007. Global emissions have only continued to grow at a staggering rate since then. People will continue to bury their heads in the sand about all this, but if they truly care about mitigating against the worst of the involuntary degrowth and depopulation that is to come the a complete paradigm shift is needed now.


LazyGit

> I checked the source and it's from James Lovelock. Fuck we are screwed. Worth noting that he repeatedly downgraded his apocalyptic view of the future.


JeremyWheels

Scary isn't it. Companies like Solar Foods will help to a degree. They can produce protein and fat without photosynthesis/soil being involved at any stage. They just need renewable electricity, a factory and microbes. Although the product is more designed to be combined with other foods/crops


Peak_District_hill

Oh for sure, food is still going to be grown, but our current population is propped up by an energy intensive farming system that relies upon 30cm of topsoil and a moderate wet climate. Radical change was needed 30 years ago, what happens over the next 20’years really is only about mitigating about how bad the involuntary degrowth and depopulation will be.


wanktarded

**WE IMPORT TWO-THIRDS OF OUR CHEESE, THAT IS A DISGRACE!**


DeliciousLiving8563

It's always time kick the brexiters because brexit kicks us every day


moonski

its the sunlit droughtlands


colin_staples

I thought they said "we don't need to worry about food rotting in of customs delays, because we can grow all our own food anyway" I genuinely had a (Brexit supporting) colleague who, when the threat of "no deal" was genuine and the conversation turned to how this would affect food imports, said "well I need to lose some weight anyway". I despair sometimes.


GotNowt

I mean, this isn't a problem with Brexit, all of Europe is having the same problem with climate change and they didn't go through brexit


LowQualityDiscourse

I hope you're all ready for [the 4.5x increase in crop failures over this decade, and the 25x increase in crop failures anticipated to occur by 2050 (27.5 years away)](https://www.woodwellclimate.org/climate-change-food-security-crop-failures/). Super cool that we had forty years of warnings and still chose to do this.


shatterhand19

We should wait a few more years, just to get more solid data, to be extra sure!


Space-Dribbler

BP spokesperson


monial

https://imgur.com/R8dcjjx.jpg


DisasterousGiraffe

Attribution studies are remarkably quick now - the science has progressed to the point where they can almost immediately say with confidence things like: [Without human-caused climate change temperatures of 40°C in the UK would have been extremely unlikely](https://www.worldweatherattribution.org/without-human-caused-climate-change-temperatures-of-40c-in-the-uk-would-have-been-extremely-unlikely/). The drought is therefore known to have been caused by climate change. The Guardian and BBC appear to be unaware of this: "research has not yet been conducted to determine whether this year’s drought was caused by climate breakdown".


Space-Cadet0

Yes, the planet got destroyed. But for a beautiful moment in time we created a lot of value for shareholders. https://www.insidehook.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/11/tom-toro-climate-cartoon-1.jpg


deliverancew2

Everyone concerned by this should check out this map of land usage in the UK: https://imgur.io/NtQEiRP Increased crop failures can and should be mitigated by turning over suitable land from meat production to plant production, ideally yesterday.


Canadayawaworth

Reducing meat production is also beneficial in terms of climate change, too.


mongolianshortbread

People forget that meat production isn't just the land for the animals. It's the massive amounts of land necessary for feed, and the water needed to sustain the animal and grow the crops for them. [One single pound of beef takes almost 1,800 gallons of water to rear](https://foodtank.com/news/2013/12/why-meat-eats-resources/). It's probably favourable for all of us to use land for more sustainable food types.


spaceyjase

(Far) Less overall land use, rewilding adding to natural pollinators and increased moisture levels, culminating in arresting and (later) reversing the impact of man-made climate change. Overall health increase, social and economic benefits… real food security and we leave the animals in peace. What’s not to love here? I’m not sure what else I can do and I’m glad to be one of those annoying people that keeps bleating on about it in the small hope it influences others that read and hear about it.


MarlinMr

The sad thing is, most of that is supposed to be "forest". Not just forest, but _rain forest_ in large parts of it too.


dwair

To be fair, where I live they cut down all the forests in the early bronze age. The ecology has evolved to be something else now.


thaumogenesis

Temperate rainforest is also rarer than tropical rainforest. Huge chunks of western UK should be cloaked in it. Alas, particularly in the case of wales, animal agriculture takes precedent.


Nonions

I thought a lot of the land used for pasture was because it was unsuited for other things? Certainly a lot of the hilly areas.


dwair

Most of the agricultural land in the UK isn't suitable for horticulture. Most of our land is too poor, too hilly or too prone to flooding to do much else bar put cows on it and farm beef. Think of it this way, farmers are greedy fuckers so if they could grow a crop that's worth more than grass for cow feed, they would jump at the chance. Edit: I'm not suggesting that we don't massively reduce or even stop beef farming - only that no one should expect to grow a commercially viable crop on that land instead.


MaievSekashi

Or as a first priority, seize the fucking grouse moors Plant, animal or whatever else, it's better than dipshit birds being shot for pleasure and flooding our cities in the process.


OhMy-Really

But but GDP!!!!!! And ETERNAL GROWTH!!!!!!!! And PROFITSSSSSSSSSSSSSS.


Sellswordinthegrove

Mean while I'm sat in an office with people laughing when they hear we've declaring a drought with a standard blurted phrase "but we're an island are these people for real" I int think they realise you can't just dump sea water onto farmland


are_you_nucking_futs

You work in a very stupid office. Maybe tell people they should go drink seawater.


barcap

I think the poster should look for a new job.


Sellswordinthegrove

Oh trust me I am


MSweeny81

I was absolutely baffled by how many people in the thread with the satellite photo of the dry UK were saying "but we're surrounded by water?!" Are people genuinely so ignorant that they don't know the difference between fresh and salt water?


ISeenYa

The idiocy of the British public regularly shocks me


Mention_Patient

i go with George Carlin on this. Think how stupid the average person is then realise half of people are even stupider than that


abstractConceptName

_half of people are stupider than that_ It's hard to process, but it's true.


ApprehensiveEmploy21

It’s only true for a symmetric distribution of stupidity. IQ is symmetric but stupidity might not be imo


AmINothing

https://youtu.be/ykthWUdkhu0 Have a laugh at the first woman if you haven't already seen It


Crowdfunder101

The poor guy that thought he spent 10 years fighting in a war to protect Miles.


gmish4p

I wonder what question today would similarly demonstrate how ignorant and thick the general public are? Because it seems like people haven't changed a great deal in nearly 45 years.


abstractConceptName

Ask them to point out Ukraine on a map?


Dicky__Anders

I love that old dear who's like "it doesn't matter to me, I only go 4 miles an hour!" And drives away.


fire__munki

Yes and no. Generally I assume we're collectively dumb, but then you see interviews and I am impressed and surprised at just how dumb some people are.


audigex

There are a lot of people who are properly astonishingly stupid. They're unlikely to understand even if you explained it to them There are even more people who aren't completely stupid, but make no effort to learn or understand things There are many more people on top of that who aren't thick, do pay attention to some stuff, but just don't care about most things or learn about them, so have no idea what desalination entails


mamacitalk

Is desalination difficult because it’s time consuming, expensive or both?


noggin-scratcher

Mostly it's energy-intensive, and therefore expensive. Also the capacity of existing desalination plants will be finite, and manufacturing more equipment and building more plants isn't something that happens instantly or without cost. And if the expected amount of demand (that's willing/able to pay for more expensive water) is difficult to predict, the economics of it might not work out. Wouldn't want to spend however much building the thing if there's too high a risk of it not then being viable.


audigex

It’s very energy intensive, so it’s expensive and adds to our energy demands It also produces brine as a by product and you have to be able to do something with that unless you want to just dump it into the ocean and destroy your local ecosystem, which adds a cost It’s a good idea if you have no other option, but it’s not cheap or easy. But most people have no idea about the energy usage or the amount of brine produced - typically 2L of brine for every 1L of freshwater produced, although in an estuary it may be closer to 1:1 which still isn’t great


Dahnhilla

How many packs of Maldon sea salt flakes can you make from 2 litres of brine?


PM_ME_WHAT_Y0U_G0T

Same people who say it's not that bad because it was hot in 1976


joho999

if i was absolutely desperate for water then i would want to be by the sea, desalinating for one person is easy, desalinating for 68 million people is a whole other level, lol.


DC38x

Just add some saltn't


can_i_get_some_help

It's as if the phrase 'desert island' was never invented


Souseisekigun

I'm just wondering where the phrase "water, water everywhere and not a drop to drink" went. You'd think it might have tipped at least a few people off.


bopeepsheep

"But that's how you grow the potatoes for ready salted crisps."


[deleted]

[удалено]


Mention_Patient

i understand thames water has the only one and its currently broken/under maintenance and has never worked at capacity. That one took 2 years to get ready (6 if you included all the policy stuff planning permissions). I wouldn't hold your breath hoping they are the solution and there fairly energy intensive to use anyways. Better to invest in new reservoirs and better infrastructure generally. The whole country seems built on a mix of Victorian, 60/70s infrastructure projects, gaffer tape and hope.


Razada2021

>i understand thames water has the only one and its currently broken/under maintenance and has never worked at capacity. That one took 2 years to get ready (6 if you included all the policy stuff planning permissions). Desalination is also incredibly energy intensive and expensive, add in an extra operating cost of "24% of all water Thames water provides is lost due to leaks" and i don't think the answer is desalination.


audigex

We have one I'm aware of, in the Thames Estuary. It produces enough water for about 1/4 of a million homes (designed for 400k, but they apparently misjudged the salinity in the estuary and can only really use it for 250k) We turned it off last week for maintenance...


CroSSGunS

... How can you misjudge the salinity of water that is _literally right there_? It's not like you couldn't just go out, take samples and fucking measure it.


gnutrino

So take this with a grain of salt as it comes about 4th-hand (I used to work at an Environmental Consultancy that had contracts with Thames Water for unrelated things and this is coming from gossip from contacts from there) but as I understand it: So firstly, the salinity of the Thames Estuary varies with the tide. The plan was to pump water at low tide, when the salinity is lowest, into reservoirs and then feed the plant from there. However, it turned out they didn't have enough storage capacity to actually hold enough water to feed full operation between tides and also hadn't taken into account the fact that pumps have a flow limit and the salinity wouldn't be at the minimum for the whole period the pumps would have to be operating to supply the volume of water needed. Essentially, as far as I can see, someone did a back-of-the-envelope calculation using the lowest possible salinity and didn't account for real world problems with accessing enough water at that salinity level.


FitBook2767

We can if we grow samphire and nothing else!


MSweeny81

Obviously not for a long while, but I can see things like kelp, algae, fungus etc being the direction large scale farming has to move towards. Traditional crops are going to get harder and harder to grow large scale as water becomes scarcer and top soil erodes further and weather conditions become more extreme. That and manufactured proteins etc. Soylent Green here we come!


_MildlyMisanthropic

that'll make for a tough Christmas. "What'll it be this year kids, presents, or roasties??"


[deleted]

[удалено]


Erestyn

This was my long running joke for Christmas whenever somebody would ask me what I wanted. "Coal, so that I can have a warm Christmas for a change." ...yeah, might be retiring that.


0101111000101010

Good news, thanks to coal future Christmases will be a lot warmer


rugbyj

I'll have the kids please.


DagothNereviar

I've found Prince Andrew's reddit account.


Muntjac

Daddy or chips?


GlueProfessional

Tbh I have always liked having a meal and coming together in front of a warm fire more than the gifts. So this xmas should be great as we all come together to burn a wheely bin for warmth.


HalfBloodHitman

Every day I become more convinced we have entered the end times.


JM0804

We have. r/collapse Edit: and r/CollapseSupport


[deleted]

As a long time resident of r/collapse, the cross over in sentiment between there and r/uk is growing all the time. I often have to check which sub I'm on, as doomer things that would have been downvoted to oblivion on r/uk in the past are now becoming mainstream.


ExquisiteURL

I find it depressing mostly cause the posters in there are gagging for the world to end, they’re almost giddy talking about it. Proper cringe inducing.


[deleted]

>gagging for the world to end Yes, this is sadly very common in any kind of community around similar topics. The doomsday prepper type people have a similar problem. When your current personal situation seems dark and hopeless, then the end of the world as we know it would looks like a nice change. Especially because a lot of these fantasies people have involve their previously overlooked worth/skills (bushcraft for example) becoming valuable. I think there is also a "look i told you I was right" behavior.


GlueProfessional

I can kayak and camp. I am sorted in the end times. Just go paddle out to an island and set up camp there. Then starve to death because I don't know how to fish. Or die of some nutrient deficiency after trying to live off mussels and having no idea what else I can eat once the blackberries and apples are no longer available. I assume there is no Tesco for sugar so I have no idea how to make jam without that.


glytxh

It gives them the delusional sense of agency in a world that doesn’t even know they exist. It’s a yearning for control over your own life and environment, and a direct sense of meaning in it. It’s cringe, but it comes from a pretty human place we can all broadly understand.


SpecialVermi

We haven't, and peddling the idea that we have does nothing to encourage people to be pro-active and engaged about fixing the problems we're facing. These problems *absolutely exist* and *absolutely are existential*, but they can be fixed or at least mitigated into crises that we learn from. Sitting around saying "These are end times." just makes people depressed, apathetic, and generally disengage for the sake of their mental health. This shit needs to stop just as much as idiots burying their heads and thinking science/the free market will save us at the last second. The "there's nothing we can do, it's over" is such a fucking play into the hands of corporations and billionaires that will continue on with the status quo given the chance, I am baffled it's become so mainstream.


pauperhouse5

Oh boy, I've not visited that sub for a few years because I found it too depressing even back then. I can't imagine how hellish it is these days...


JM0804

Bad enough that r/CollapseSupport exists too. Take care of yourself.


OilOffTheBacon

I tried making this exact same point a few weeks ago on here and was told I didn't understand the science. I'm glad there are a few people on this sub who understand what's happening, it gives me hope.


J8YDG9RTT8N2TG74YS7A

Nah, we're fucked. As we saw with the Covid lockdowns, too many people just won't accept any limitations on their comforts. People stop caring about climate change as soon as you explain that they will have to change their lifestyle if we want to reduce the effects of climate change. They have the mentality of "well if we can't solve it 100% then why bother?". And later on they get into the mentality of "well other countries aren't doing anything so why should we?". And when they do finally get confronted with an article that points out a simple step to help reduce climate change, they'll get angry in an attempt to deflect from the issue. Just check any comment thread about reducing meat consumption to see the usual angry replies. Tell them they can help reduce climate change by eating less meat and there will be plenty of people who will eat extra meat just to annoy you. In some of the larger subreddits you'll get plenty of comments along the lines of "fuck you! I'll eat what I want!". You can spend the past 5 years telling people that large amounts of microplastics come from the tyres of vehicles and very, very few of them will drive less, and they'll justify it with a lot of mental gymnastics about how they need their car. And those aren't even the biggest problems we're going to have to deal with. Climate change is going to cause issues with being able to grow food. Temperature rises, even slight ones, will make it difficult globally to continue to grow crops in lots of areas. Once that starts to happen we know from history that those countries will just stop exporting their dwindling supplies of food. And those that do export will be charging extortionate prices due to lack of supply. (Recent example being Ukraine and the issues around wheat and fertiliser exports and prices) The UK has not been self sufficient for food in over 200 years. Technically we can be, but we will have to drastically alter our diet and cut back on a huge amount of meat and repurpose those fields for growing crops. And when this starts to happen the people will start crying out for the government to do something about it. But they won't want the government to actually do anything that helps climate change, they just want the government to subsidise the costs so they can continue to eat meat and drive where they like. As a species, we have a very selfish and myopic view of the world. We are fucked.


inevitablelizard

> You can spend the past 5 years telling people that large amounts of microplastics come from the tyres of vehicles and very, very few of them will drive less, and they'll justify it with a lot of mental gymnastics about how they need their car. To be fair, this is a society wide issue that's hard to free yourself from. Without a car I would not have a job or any sort of independent life. It's that fucking simple. We need to drastically increase our efforts on alternatives to the car, like publicly owned and well funded public transport that's actually reliable and affordable, and much more cycling infrastructure. Make it so alternatives to the car are far more viable for more people. The other side of that is the housing crisis makes all this more difficult, as people end up being restricted in where they can afford to live which can often mean a longer commute. Another issue which desperately needs action.


StevieChance

The moment that I realised that we as a species are incapable of saving ourselves by minimising our impact on climate change was listening to a 5live phone-in where people were getting surprisingly upset about having to wear a mask on public transport, in a pandemic. Talk about low hanging fruit. If it stopped one person from dying, might it not be worth it? But no, they just couldn't do it. I lost all hope for us to be able to respond collectively to future threats where the threat isn't immediate.


muggylittlec

Just remember Lizz Truss is going to "crack down" on those pesky solar farms though. So they'll be more room for failed crops in the future.


KaiKamakasi

She's gonna what?


muggylittlec

"crack down" - like it's some sort of illegal rave in a field https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/news/it-appears-truss-has-a-problem-with-solar-panels-but-not-fracking-331556/


Canadayawaworth

Don't worry though, she's going to increase fracking instead! And if we get Rishi, he'll ban on shore wind farms!


KaiKamakasi

Fuck me dead, so we're screwed either way...


ToffeeAppleCider

Carrots are cheap, dead cheap. Like as many as you can hold for 15p. I wonder how many people are counting on that who have a low budget...


Shivadxb

Were Carrots were cheap


noxx1234567

It will take sometime for the drought to affect prices , UK already has last harvests produce in the warehouses. The problems will start when the next harvest cannot match the demand


ChocolateHumunculous

Spoken to a butcher in a while? The grain for our next batch of livestock has just been sold at about a 40-60% mark up. The price of meat is about to reflect this.


GlueProfessional

I like carrots. Tasty and cheap.


DrunkPunkRat

We had Pestilence, we have War, the next one will be Famine.


DominoTimmy

The fourth one will be alright though….right?


Gellert

At least the fourth ones nice and funny. Sort of imagine shes a hugger too.


Fml379

Aww did you see her in The Sandman?


PrettyGazelle

Nah, after the drought and burning sky come the floods, then four months of freezing in the bitterest winter we've seen in 100 years just to make sure everyone really needs to turn the heating on.


TheShakyHandsMan

I wonder how the Republic of Ireland would respond if we tried to import potatoes from them 🤔


Baslifico

I'm sure they'll be fine with it. Great people, excellent sense of humour and no penchant for reacting poorly when taken advantage of. Just be sure to call it the _English_ Potato Tax so they know who to thank, I'm sure that'll help...


buttered_cat

I live there and grow spuds recreationally. I'll sell them to ye, but they will cost a bit. Organic spuds like.


Canadayawaworth

...would you send soda bread too?!


not-rioting-pacifist

ROI should buy all the British potatoes and th n deny there is a lack of potatoes because if there was they wouldn't be able to buy them.


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EdgeJosh

Can't wait till we stop capitulating to archaic ways of farming where these droughts threaten the entire nation. More hydroponics like Thanet earth can literally not come soon enough it seems


ProFoxxxx

I work in vertical farming and walking through yesterday picking my lunch salad leaves was pretty cool.


LBLLuke

Does your company produce any infographics or data reports on emissions vs traditional or low carbon farming? Yields, time spent, etc? I've a project coming up and it'd be useful


ProFoxxxx

Nothing public yet. Water use is 95% less. We're still using the same water from 11 months ago. Zero pesticides or herbicides Energy for the lights, humidity and HVAC is the biggest cost but if powered by renewables then it's pretty much net zero.


devilspawn

That's insane. And amazing. Looking forward to seeing this sort of thing develop in the future


GroundbreakingRow817

The problem with hydroponics for our country is electricity and the associated costs. Untill we have a government with some balls and willingness to devout their term to just energy security as their primary aim for any project spending we wont be able to mass move to hydroponics. On the counter side it would massively cut our water use and with agriculture using 90% of our water each and every day it would help sustainability there by quite a lot. Also less damage to environment and no poisoning water ways too. Things like hydroponics are going to have to be the future but like most things that well help us out. Electricity and a decade of no care from the government.


Baslifico

For future reference, you wanted _devote_ there. (Or autocorrect sabotaged you). > Also less damage to environment and no poisoning water ways too. Hydroponics/Aeroponics still use chemicals and nutrients. They do use less water overall but conversely, they don't benefit from rainwater, so I'm uncertain as to whether or not it would be less water taken from a water supplier.


GroundbreakingRow817

Darn swipe keyboards. Yes they do use the chemicals and nutrients but this should be in a closed system. Preventing things like runoffs into waterways which can impact far further than just the waterway itself. The rainwater side of things I'd suggest is down to rain water management. The land still exists and can have the water captured and channelled into the hydroponic system or storage or left as is if both are full up. Though I admit this would take a lot more foresight and planning than we perhaps would actually do in practice if it wasnt mandated by regulations or law.


EdgeJosh

Thanet Earth has reservoirs on site to collect rainwater + all the runoff goes back into their reservoirs preventing contamination (so they say) which is still better than thiamethoxam and other nasty bi products wrecking our water tables and reservoirs.


donnacross123

Then I had to read from some moron yesterday that the UK is the best country to live in coz we wont be affected by climate change as other places will...ok...


_Lenzo_

I mean yeah there are other places that will be affected worse. It'll be really bad here, but it'll be even worse elsewhere.


TheCenci78

We won't be affected by the weather that much, but we will have a refugee crisis on our hands that would make the current problem look miniscule


sabrinnnnnaaaaa

No worries mate well just send them to Rwanda


Significant_Loan_702

The scary thing is that we **are** one of the places that will be least affected by climate change. That doesn't mean we have it good though, it only means that there's hundreds of countries that will have it worse. I think a lot of people haven't really comprehended the scale of the humanitarian crisis that climate change will cause, and the mass migration of people that will be a result of it. The changing climate of Syria is already acknowledged to be one of the causes of the conflict in that region and a contributor to the refugee crisis that resulted from it.


Locke66

It's a large reason why the tech billionaires are buying up isolated property in New Zealand. A largely temperate climate, reasonable level of self sufficiency on essentials and most importantly it's very hard to get to for refugees.


KaiKamakasi

Won't be affected by climate change as other places will? We're they under a rock when it was forty degrees a couple of weeks ago?


joho999

"That was just the government moving temperature gauges closer to runways while chemtrails helped to keep it warmer", someone actually said that to me.


KaiKamakasi

Every day I find more reasons to question how we made it this far as a species when people like that exist


Souseisekigun

It's still kinda true. By the time we hit a India or Saudi Arabia style climate those countries will be effectively inhospitable. We will, at the very least, be one of the last to go. Classic British positivity.


SophieTitWank

The good news never stops coming. Don't worry about the vegetables because we'll all be dead from poverty, thirst and monkey pox anyway.


QuirkyLetter3215

Don’t forget freezing to death and polio.


tylesftw

Thanks Sophie tit wank


Wise-Application-144

Good thing we ignored those Extinction Rebellion fuckers. Obstructing SUVs and making a handful of people late for work. Stupid. This outcome here is much more preferable than anyone being incovenienced on their commute.


MrPoletski

Great. And I fully expect, that a few weeks past it being too late to rescue any crops, the rain will come. And the rain will shit down on us like a tsunami, giving us widespread flooding. And the tories will do....


noobREDUX

Rain isn’t coming. Situation is fucked > While previous dry summers have been offset by wet autumns, meaning the worst effects on water supply have not hit, those present at the meeting were told that was unlikely to be the case this year, with arid conditions predicted to continue due to climate breakdown. > Slides from the EA say: “An increased chance of warm conditions through August to October is consistent with an increased westerly flow from warmer than average seas, and our warming climate. With a typical north-west (wetter) to south-east (drier) gradation in rainfall most likely, there are no strong signals for a significant amelioration of current dry conditions.” > “Where river flows are supported by groundwater that recharges during the winter months, the impact of dry weather is reduced. But a continuation of below average rainfall into a second winter would likely result in serious hydrological and environmental drought, with further intensification of the water supply restrictions and fish rescues that we are starting to see in the south-east.”


Jaime4Cersei

Oh fuck I thought we'd be over this soon with our late summer/early autumn rains. Jesus.


ISeenYa

Especially as the ground will be rock hard & we have shit planning. Then everyone will say oh there's rain why no food! Without realising the growing season is over.


Sytafluer

Anyone else wishing they could go back to 2020 were all we had to worry about was a global pandemic.


UnsolicitedHydrogen

No thanks. Just give me 2015 or something please.


[deleted]

Are we going to look back on 2019 as the last 'normal' year?


CrushingPride

I wouldn't call any of the years since Brexit and Donald Trump started "normal".


slazer2k

Incoming [Great Potatoe famine](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Famine_(Ireland)) GB version, good that we are in a close union with 27 other western allies. Oh, wait.....


akerro

This eliminates the problem of not having anyone to pick up the vegs and drivers delivering them to end customers.


Redmarkred

Amazing. The good news is unrelenting at the moment. So excited for the future


PugAndChips

Not that this headline will convince the Facebook comments section. They ehtiehr think that climate change is still nonsense or that the sun isn't even that bad, despite breaking records.


UnsolicitedHydrogen

iTs CaLLed sUmMeR!!!!!!!!!


OldLondon

Good job we’re part of a large trading block which would give us some shared food security.. oh wait…


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SirLoinThatSaysNi

The announcement isn't so much about if we are in drought or not, but the Government making changes because they have declared a drought. It allows them to work under different parameters to normal and have different powers over companies and agencies.


ARobertNotABob

Clarkson tweeted last night he was prevented from harvesting because of fire risk...


forgottenoldusername

There's been loads of harvest fires over the last few days. We've even had them up here in NW England and we're doing comparatively OK for rain. Often things like a bit of flint will be picked up by the machinery, spark, and as everything is so dry there isn't time to sort it before it spreads.


ARobertNotABob

The dust I imagine, could even spark spontaneously, like flour, sawdust.


[deleted]

Unsurprising. Lots of news of combine harvester fires on local news pages in more rural regions.


Craft_beer_wolfman

If it's that bad here, France and Spain are going to have a terrible time. I'm lucky to live in NW England where the local produce should be OK.


RoddyPooper

Good thing half the Tory party are pocketing hundreds of thousands of pounds from fossil fuel companies and the other half just plain don’t believe in climate change at all. I don’t think we can survive another decade of Tory rule.


shadowpawn

Upside is fewer people would be required to pick those crops.


Stuspawton

Oop, another failure for the tories and their privatised water that they refused to nationalise. We're going to see a lot worse by the time winter rolls around with the current predictions of it being as bad a winter as 2010. Just wait though, wait for the tories to blame literally everyone else, and wait for their voters to lap it up, blindly following what they say. This is all fucking ridiculous now.


Sensitive_Ad1085

Bunch of idiots running the country. They can buy stuff from anywhere as being wealthy. They don't care about the normal public. Congratulations to Brexit supporters .


NoLove_NoHope

The state of the country is giving Old Testament pestilence and plagues


In_My_Own_World

Can we get Mathew Maconahey (spelling) to pilot a ship to a new earth. But leave leave voters behind?